Giantkiller Review

[lbeebe48]

What is Giantkiller?

It's a combination of two programs, The Giant (a press program) and King Sized Killer (a snatch program). For this block I did Giant 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 and KSK 1.0 Phases 1-3.

Both programs are from Geoff Neupert and can be purchased here: https://go.chasingstrength.com/training-programs-workouts/

Would I recommend this program?

Yes, with caveats. Individually they're a little boring, and I think they run too long. Together they're less boring, but still quite long. I'm not sure the marginal benefit of more C&P is worth it compared to a C&P/FS or C&P/row or pull up complex.

How I set up Giantkiller

• I stuck to an ABA/BAB split. So one week snatch / press / snatch, next week press / snatch / press.
• Used my starting 10rm press, which was 20kg.
• Used a 20 minute timer (although I went over sometimes if there was a convenient interval, my timer only does 15s increments).
• Cut Giant to 3 weeks instead of extending KSK to 4 weeks
• I was not consistent about off days, but usually tried to do some (3-5x10) front squats or goblets paired with rows or pullups. Also swung the mace around if the weather was nice.
• (Almost) all the snatches were half snatches

High Level Overview of the Programs

Both The Giant and King Sized Killer are pretty basic programs and will be familiar to anyone who has run DFW (or another Geoff Neupert workout).

• 20-30 minute sessions
• Auto-regulation (supposedly)
• Aim for more reps week-to-week within blocks, then increase reps per set between blocks
  • I see this progression as the basic GN system

For the Giant, it's straight sets in Giant 1 and ladders in Giant 2 - why not a mix? Who knows. For KSK, its ladders to start then straight sets as you advance. That's pretty much it!

Specific Comments & Criticisms

• Running each of these programs alone would be pretty boring IMO - doing them together cuts down the repetitiveness but it's still not a lot of variety.
• I like auto-regulation in theory. In practice, I will see where I land on week 1 then use an interval timer to ensure I can add another set the next week. Having more within-block change (reps per set, length of training, etc.) might get you closer to idea of pure auto-regulation. Basically let my body lead week one and let the timer lead the next two weeks. I don't know if letting my body lead every week would be preferable.
  • Example: adding another 5 minutes to your timer each week instead of adding another set to your existing 20 min. Decouple volume and intensity increases.
• Somewhat weird progression in sometimes reps:
  • The jump in reps from Giant 1.0 to Giant 1.1 is bigger than Giant 1.1 to 1.2.
  • KSK 1.0 and 1.1 are ladders then 1.2 is straight sets
  • In general I think the mix of sets and ladders in DFW is better. I'm not sure why GN chose to do one or the other in both of these programs.
• I definitely got better at pressing and snatching, but at least for pressing I'm not sure this much volume is really necessary (especially compared to DFW when paired with the squat).
  • Hypothesis: a C+P/row (or pull up) complex would sacrifice some - possibly junk - volume on the press for high impact volume on the pull. Also, applying the Giant sets to Front Squat sounds like a good time.
• For Press day, opt for 30 minutes if you can. Doing 20 minute sessions I really wanted the higher ceiling for rest times. There's more room for improvement. Doing 12 sets of 8 on a 1:45 interval sucked, and some of my later sets of 8 and 9 were more like 6+2 or 5+4.
• King Sized Killer 1.2 inexplicably changes from ladders to straight sets which is then carried through to 2.0 and on. However, it's only in 2.0 that GN specifies that you should do X reps on one hand then X on the other. He writes this as X*2 reps per set. Just an oddity.
  • GN doesn't tell you where to switch hands on the ladders, so choose your own adventure. I changed between rungs of the ladder to ensure I'd average out balanced, but I did adjust all the ladders to have an odd number of rungs to facilitate this.
• While my snatch form did improve, I'm still not great and consistently got a blister just below my middle finger. Ultimately bought these grips from bear komplex: https://www.amazon.com/Bear-KompleX...bell/dp/B072P2DZDJ?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1. Helped a lot.

Results & Closing Thoughts

This is average reps per week with the 20kg.For example, my final entry for C&P was 3 workouts of 84, 90, and 96 reps over a two week period which averaged out to 135 per week. Snatch was 180/180/164.

1.1

Lift
Avg Reps/Week

Snatch
140

C&P
89

Snatch
185

C&P
102

Snatch
200

C&P
109

1.2

Lift
Avg Reps/Week

Snatch
222

C&P
107

Snatch
249

C&P
118

Snatch
276

C&P
128

1.3

Lift
Avg Reps/Week

Snatch
228

C&P
111

Snatch
246

C&P
123

Snatch
262

C&P
135

• That's about a 30% increase in snatch volume and 24% increase in C&P volume between the end of 1.1 and the end of 1.3. Not too shabby!
• Anecdotally, I think I look good right now and my wife agrees. The shoulder and trap pump is very flattering after a workout.
• Moving from pure ladders in 1.2 to straight sets in 1.3 on the snatch I lost some volume. I was also bouncing around some illness between me and my toddler during 1.3 but that's life.
• My snatch form is much improved, but still pretty bad. My forearms on the sets of 15 were complaining even with the assistance of the grips. Thinking of trying a amrap set with 16kg just to see how it goes. Weirdly enough, I feel like my hands weren't much worse off doing full snatch vs. half snatch. Something about my hand placement in the drop?
• Still deciding what to do next - I'm not particularly enthusiastic about Giant 2.0 with 20kgs. KSK 2.0 looks alright, but I was already having some trouble with sets of 15 and 2.0 goes up to 30 lol.
  • Might try moving up to Giant 3.0 with 24s and run it by itself, but I do miss squats.
• I'm noodling on a more generic 10RM KB program and would blend ladders into the whole program rather than separating them out and add in programmed squats and back work. 3 days of programming and 2-3 days of unstructured work wasn't ideal for me, so I think I would rather try 4 programmed days per week. I think this is basically what maximorum is?

 

[hunter101]

@lbeebe48 Excellent review, and great progress!

You're right on for The Giant for front squats. I'm doing it myself, and it works really well. I did it for double snatches as well, before starting KSK.

With regards to the junk volume thing, I'm not entirely sure I believe such a thing exists. Even if you get into 20+ sets of 4 on The Giant 1.0, that work capacity will allow you to do more of the longer sets. (I also deviate wildly from Geoff's recommendation that you mostly take it easy outside of his programs).

 

[lbeebe48]

@hunter101 Fair yeah, I think it depends on your goals. Like on the snatch, or if I were training for competition, the reps themselves are the goal, but given limited time it could be more beneficial to do 10 sets of C+P and 10 sets of front squats (or 10 sets of pullups) vs. 20 sets of C+P. Goals being get stronger and look good naked.

Not that it's bad per se, more work is good!, but the opportunity cost of those sets.

 

[hunter101]

@lbeebe48 Oh, absolutely. In terms of time efficiency, you may want the squats, rows and pullups in there as well.

That being said, I don't think there's an issue with dropping some exercises for a bit while specialising on some other stuff. I've heard people reporting their squats improving when they came back to it after The Giant. I think there's a lot of value in specialising in a few exercises at a time (while preferably at least maintaining everything else).

Not that that kind of minimalism is my style - I'm more of a kitchen sink kind of guy.

 

[cristina49]

@lbeebe48 Maximorum is clean&press and front squat-days mixed with snatch days. It's a nice program.

 

[lbeebe48]

@cristina49 I'm definitely interested. Considering something home brew like press/row, squat/pull, snatch.

 

[mir2017lma]

@lbeebe48 Sounds cool! I ran a similar amalgamation over the summer. Day one was C&P/FS, day two was snatches, and day three was straight C&P. I enjoyed the variety. I did not analyze my data to see how much i improved over any of the days but it was a lot of fun. I did this on top a heavy (for me) run program to finish a half marathon and i was able to at least maintain my pressing strength when i went back to more conventional resistance training program.

 

[learnandbloom]

@lbeebe48 Nice job on the write up. It seems like you made some nice progress!

Exercise variety throughout the week is a weird one. It’s hard if you’re working with just a limited selection of kettlebells. Have you considered some kind of pike push-up or handstand push up? Dips would also be great.

Personally, I never minded pressing three days a week. Might be a carry over from when I did barbell training with the heavy, light, medium days. I always kind of looked at the giant in a similar way.

 

[roseprince]

@lbeebe48 Have run both these programs l really like them both. I can see your position about them being boring or needing some other exercises.
Personally I like that I can focus on one movement and drill it. Generally, once I feel I'm getting bored per se, I will do a change up for 4to6 weeks working on something else for a while and often revisit giant on a different program or with slightly heavier weight. Same with KSK.

I have a lot of Geoff's material amongst other things and at the end of the day I see them as a tool in my kb toolbox. There to employ depending on goals etc.

Good review man I and many here appreciate honest reviews like this, great work on the progress too!

 

[belovedsone]

@lbeebe48 I would go with Maximorum or DFW remix next based on what you said you want to do, or even a new combo of both? you seem to be good at coming up with a program that suits your needs.

 

[rtellard]

@lbeebe48 This is a Fakespot Reviews Analysis bot. Fakespot detects fake reviews, fake products and unreliable sellers using AI.

Here is the analysis for the Amazon product reviews:

Name: Bear KompleX 3 & 2 Hole Carbon Hand Grips for Gymnastics & Crossfit, Pull-ups, Weight Lifting. WODs w, Wrist Straps. Comfort & Support-Hand Protection from Rips & Blisters.

Company: Bear KompleX

Amazon Product Rating: 4.6

Fakespot Reviews Grade: C

Adjusted Fakespot Rating: 2.9

Analysis Performed at: 07-09-2023

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[dawes]

@rtellard

 

[lbeebe48]

@rtellard Thank you fakespotbot

 

[chanteuserose]

@rtellard bad bot

 

[wakemantk]

@lbeebe48 I have never run a program in my life and I don't think I ever will