How to improve shoulder and rotator cuff conditioning (e.g. Cuban rotations)

[bibbigo]

At the start of every training session, I do a lot of shoulder warm-up and prep with many exercises. I wanted to start a discussion specifically about internal and external rotation to share what I do and to find out what others do.

I think my shoulder routine, which is self-developed, is due for an overhaul in 2019 since I just did the same thing in every warm-up during 2018.

1. External/Internal Rotation with a 5lb plate - wrist is straight (HORIZONTAL) - I do about 20 slow reps with about 180 deg range of motion on either side. On the external rotation, I extend the ROM an extra 15 deg.
2. External/Internal Rotation with a 5lbs plate - wrist is straight (VERTICAL) - I do the same or 20 reps slow with >180 deg ROM. On the bottom of the movement my hands is points to the floor but over time I have increased my ROM so that I can go about 30 deg past vertical which is not easy, but possible now. This is similar to a one armed Cuban rotation.
3. Cuban rotation 2x20 with a 30lbs straight bar and again on the top of the movement, I over rotate past 180 deg so my top position is about 30 deg behind my head. Again, this is very tough but in the past few months, my ROM has increased a lot.
4. PVC Shoulder dislocates 2x20 slowly with arms locked out.
5. I do 3-4 more other exercises for the shoulders, but no overhead pressing and no barbell work at all. I don’t know what the exercises are called so I would have to make a video to better explain them.

Specifically, what do people think of #1-#4 above as exercises? What are you doing for shoulder and specifically rotator cuff?

Edit: clarifications.

 

[jermyn]

@bibbigo I don’t think you really need to do internal rotation since so much of our work already is internal rotator training. I would definite work on the external though.

 

[catfisher]

@jermyn I have also thought that. But my shoulder health started to drastically improve when I started to do internal rotation drills.

 

[jermyn]

@catfisher I had the opposite experience. My shoulders started feeling better when I dropped the internal rotation.

If I had to guess, it’s because there was already so much internal rotation going on at that point since I was getting to Planche Pushups and HSPUs and OACs so I think that might have played a role. My external could finally catch up.

 

[catfisher]

@jermyn That makes sense. What I think have happened in my case, that the big internal rotators (lats, pecs) did all the work, and I had barely any activation / mind-muscle connection to the subscapularis. Which resulted in an instable shoulder joint, and a lot of clicking and crackling during the movements.

 

[dawn16]

@catfisher What internal rotation exercises did you do?

 

[catfisher]

@dawn16 I had a set of self resistance exercises that I can do anywhere anytime (pushing against my other hand or against my abdominals). And I was doing some exercises as warmup or accessory during the workouts. The 'face-push', which is an inverted face-pull, and simply squeezing a stability ball with bent arms.

 

[jun_za]

@bibbigo Doing work in hyperextension is highly underrated and effective. German hangs, reverse planks, thoracic bridges, etc. Once I started doing this kind of work regularly, my erstwhile constant struggle to stay on top of shoulder tweaks became a non-issue.

I don't like Cubans as much as Face Pulls. With FP, you get a 'compound' movement that stresses external rotation, and IMO it just feels much better. I swear by it. I use a band and hold the end position on each rep with maximal contraction.

Dislocates are excellent and weighting them is a good progression. Hinge forward for some sets to change where gravity resists you the most. Don't forget Enlocates. They look and feel weird at first, but they are a novel movement that can limber things up and promote good shoulder balance.

MindfulMover is right, internal rotation work is the least important and doesn't need to be done religiously. You already get too much internal rotation work, strength-wise, if you're doing any horizontal pressing or vertical pulling.

In general, you're being too thorough if anything, just in case you're trying to save time here or there. IMO, Face Pulls, hyperextension work (both stretching and strengthening), and dislocates are all you really need for shoulder prehab. That and just general good form and program balance.

 

[rj786]

@jun_za I recently posted about doing external rotation work in shoulder extended position:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/comments/aeo760/elbow_overhead_external_rotation_drill_prehab_for

There's a variant to my video where you do it with a band between both wrists.

The neat thing about external rotation in this position is that it uses the teres minor more than the infraspinatus. Most people don't need to rotate in this position but BWF people do (one armed dead hangs, one armed hand stands)

 

[bibbigo]

@jun_za

I don't like Cubans as much as Face Pulls.

I've never done face pulls, so I will need to experiment or replace some of my exercises to work muscles differently. Thanks.

I also do German Hangs, and Skin the Cat on the rings and even monkey bars which are good shoulder conditioning too.

Dislocates are excellent and weighting them is a good progression.

Agreed. I do them with the PVC pipe and I also sometimes take the same 5lbs plate from my other exercises and use that on the pipe to add more resistence.

Hinge forward for some sets to change where gravity resists you the most. Don't forget Enlocates.

If by hingle forward you mean bend at the waist with straight legs and put hands flat on the floor in front or behind the feet I can do that too. I looked up enlocates since I was unfamiliar with that term, however, I don't think I found a good definition.

 

[jun_za]

@bibbigo :O whaaat yeah dude do Face Pulls. They're just better - a compound, natural movement that heavily uses the external rotators but also trains scapular retraction control, thoracic extension, and if you do them strict there's a hollow body component. An elite prehab exercise. Do them in such a way that you end up in a back-double-biceps position, arms at 90 degree angles and of course elbows as far back as possible with max external rotation.

Enlocates start out behind you and rotate forward, with the hands in a supinated position to start. So, palms facing forward in the beginning. It's a counterintuitive position and you certainly don't want to load it at first, but with a very wide grip it's comfortable. It's great for limbering up and it's an interesting movement pattern.

 

[erilynbmore]

@jun_za I just call them inlocates, and in Youtube in returns a good amount of results => results list of 'inlocates'

 

[jun_za]

@erilynbmore WELP I spelled it wrong like 35 times, brb killing myself

 

[eafy]

@jun_za What are shoulder enlocates? Google isn't helping

 

[jun_za]

@eafy

Enlocates start out behind you and rotate forward, with the hands in a supinated position to start. So, palms facing forward in the beginning. It's a counterintuitive position and you certainly don't want to load it at first, but with a very wide grip it's comfortable. It's great for limbering up and it's an interesting movement pattern.

from my other response above

 

[luke]

@bibbigo I'd agree with those who have said external rotation is far more important to practice than isolated internal rotation. A huge part of rotator cuff health has to do with anterior tightness as well. Lots of doorway stretches, floor angels lying on a foam roller along my spine, and butcher block/prayer lat stretches are integral to keeping my shoulders happy. Recently when I go to bed, I've started lying on my back with my arms straight out to the side and elbows bent to 90 degrees, palms up (like the top of a Cuban rotation). I can't yet fall asleep this way, but I try to lie this way for as long as I can until I get tired of not being able to fall asleep, usually 5-7 mins. I do this every time I go to bed (which is at least twice a night, as I have a 3 month old baby), and it seems to be making a noticeable difference in happy shoulders.

 

[qtpie71]

@luke how wide is your bed?

 

[luke]

@qtpie71 It’s a king. How long are your arms?

 

[qtpie71]

@luke long enough to bend my fingertips over both sides of the king mattress simultaneously. I think my wife would kill me if I tried to sleep like that.

 

[dawn16]

@luke Can you demonstrate the position in a paint drawing? Thanks a lot.