@lostscaredme Ok I get it then. So not comparable to the powerlifting program of 1,2X your BW for BP, 1,5X for squats etc. That's great insight honestly thank you
I don't understand S&S strength standards
- Thread starter khohanguc
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lostscaredme
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@khohanguc If you did want some parameters connected to weight, Strongfirst has KB weights assigned to different weight classes for their KB certification: https://www.strongfirst.com/certifications/sfg-i-requirements/
@khohanguc Yeah. It’s marketed toward people who didn’t want to deal with that. When I read simple & sinister, I think “simple” refers to the fact that the plan is simple, easy to follow, and requires little brain use, not that the weight is simple.
lostscaredme
New member
@khohanguc It’s marketing, friend. That’s it.
Do you need Pavel’s approval? No. can you hit the simple standard at your size? I’ll bet you can! Keep at it and you’ll have some jumps and surprise yourself. Being small, you have always had a higher bar, if you’ll forgive the pun. Now rise, and meet it! Go kick some ass.
Do you need Pavel’s approval? No. can you hit the simple standard at your size? I’ll bet you can! Keep at it and you’ll have some jumps and surprise yourself. Being small, you have always had a higher bar, if you’ll forgive the pun. Now rise, and meet it! Go kick some ass.
@khohanguc All valid points that show that these "standards" are poorly constructed
clovertravis
New member
@khohanguc As someone who spent a year working toward timed "simple" (which was not, despite my being 6'3 and 180#, "easy," because at the time I was 48 with no serious athletic background) and finally achieved it...
Meh.
I got pretty good at two things, but when I finished it, the universe didn't notice. No t-shirt, no bells and whistles, just me knowing that I'd met an arbitrary standard while being terrified of what 32kg over my face would feel like if I lost control (which I did, once, but managed to guide the bell to the side before stupidly trying to catch it with my off-hand and bending my wrist backward somewhere around 85 degrees). I'd have been better off starting double KB work or doing, you know, ANY pressing during that 12-month period. Live and learn.
You've gotten good advice. Keep setting goals that are meaningful for you. If this one isn't, ignore it.
Meh.
I got pretty good at two things, but when I finished it, the universe didn't notice. No t-shirt, no bells and whistles, just me knowing that I'd met an arbitrary standard while being terrified of what 32kg over my face would feel like if I lost control (which I did, once, but managed to guide the bell to the side before stupidly trying to catch it with my off-hand and bending my wrist backward somewhere around 85 degrees). I'd have been better off starting double KB work or doing, you know, ANY pressing during that 12-month period. Live and learn.
You've gotten good advice. Keep setting goals that are meaningful for you. If this one isn't, ignore it.
@clovertravis Sad you had to waste time with S&S -- I wish it would not be the recommended program in this sub!
clovertravis
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pastorprakash
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@clovertravis For me personally, I dislike the Strongfirst marketing more so than their programs like S&S. S&S is a decent program with its share of flaws, but I really can’t stand the whole Strongfirst wannabe fighter/soldier marketing. It’s so stupid and cringey. As if achieving Sinister will make you better prepared for a street fight or battlefield than practicing an actual martial art. Just sell the workouts for what they are, ways to improve fitness and get in shape.
franciscovelasco
New member
@jim_68 It’s recommended for beginners. It’s simple to follow and introduces you to the basics. A lot of repetition of the swing is important because it’s the foundation of many movements and if your basics suck, then everything else will suck.
I’d imagine that’s why it’s the recommended program for beginners. Otherwise? I see a lot of people sucking the dick of DFW and I’m a bigger fan of Armor Building Complex, myself.
I’d imagine that’s why it’s the recommended program for beginners. Otherwise? I see a lot of people sucking the dick of DFW and I’m a bigger fan of Armor Building Complex, myself.
@franciscovelasco There are a ton of online resources that are better than the book for learning to swing.
In fact id bet most folks learn to swing from the videos than the book.
In fact id bet most folks learn to swing from the videos than the book.
franciscovelasco
New member
@franciscovelasco The usual recommendation to do the program is to buy the book.
I have no issues with recommending 10x10 swings (ideally emom imho) id recommend the swing progression that Geoff neupert wrote up for instance..
Heavy tgu is another matter entirely. And how well the tgu translates to other strength is also up for debate.. not to mention the tgu is more of a complex than a single exercise..
And the ultra slow progression in s&s is bad for folks who want to get strong..
I have no issues with recommending 10x10 swings (ideally emom imho) id recommend the swing progression that Geoff neupert wrote up for instance..
Heavy tgu is another matter entirely. And how well the tgu translates to other strength is also up for debate.. not to mention the tgu is more of a complex than a single exercise..
And the ultra slow progression in s&s is bad for folks who want to get strong..
franciscovelasco
New member
@jim_68
Nowhere did I say that. I learned from Google searches. It’s not difficult to find; hell, the book can be downloaded for free simply enough.
I’d debate that having a strong core is essential to explosive movements, and having the core learn to stabilize through whole body movement rather than isolation movements is certainly advantageous. It’s a bit more complex to learn, but it’s not that hard. YouTube is great for things like this.
I’d argue that folks that need an introduction to kettlebells are best suited to dial in the technique with the swing before moving on to anything else. Once that’s accomplished, they can move on to something else (I’d recommend Giant as the next step, but tf do I know).
Nowhere did I say that. I learned from Google searches. It’s not difficult to find; hell, the book can be downloaded for free simply enough.
I’d debate that having a strong core is essential to explosive movements, and having the core learn to stabilize through whole body movement rather than isolation movements is certainly advantageous. It’s a bit more complex to learn, but it’s not that hard. YouTube is great for things like this.
I’d argue that folks that need an introduction to kettlebells are best suited to dial in the technique with the swing before moving on to anything else. Once that’s accomplished, they can move on to something else (I’d recommend Giant as the next step, but tf do I know).
@franciscovelasco 5m of tgu vs 2m of jerk - same weight.
Which one develops core and whole body better? And is easier to learn to boot? And which one transfers better to more kb work?
Which one develops core and whole body better? And is easier to learn to boot? And which one transfers better to more kb work?
@clovertravis This man gets it
@clovertravis Thanks for your comment. I'll take it one step at a time for S&S and see where I go with it. I'm still training calisthenics alongside it so I'm pressing a fair amount. Grateful for the insight 
lostscaredme
New member
@khohanguc I will add to this that I think Enter the Kettlebell is a way better program than S&S. I’ve done both and feel that the hype around S&S is overblown.