Internalized misogyny and sports?

[lorial]

Tl:dr; Has anyone else had to seriously unlearn a lot of patriachal or misogynistic narratives about sports and the female vs male body in order to enjoy exercise? E.g. have you found that engaging in your favored forms of exercise sometimes brings up unconcious triggers based in internalized misogny?

Here's why I bring it up. After years of hating and avoiding "exercise" (thanks P.E. trauma!), I've been finally exploring and enjoying non-competitive low-impact exercise classes. But I found that seeing men be "better" than me at an exercise sometimes triggers me into spirals of shitty thoughts about myself as a woman. E.g. "men will always be able to physically dominate me so what's the point of exercise, I'm doomed to always fail next to them". Really batshit CRAZY stuff because I really like being a woman and don't think of myself as someone who thinks sports are inherently "masculine" nor that the point of sports is competition.

So I've been having to really sit with these thoughts and work through what I've been unconciously carrying regarding the patriarchal idea that "male body = for strength", "female body = for hiding away from rapey strong men then somehow popping out babies". It feels similar to unlearning the prevalent fatphobic ideas that the point of exercise is to "lose weight" or "sculpt" your body.

In this case my self-diagnosis is that I absorbed a lot of prevalent social narratives around the gendered "meaning" of sports and exercise. E.g. the idea that men are "strong" and "go to war" and so strength exercises and competitive sports are meant for men, and that women who do them are just puny imitative failures stepping out of their bodies' capabilities. When you rationally think about it, it's nonsense of course, since modern warfare with guns has nothing to do with how much muscle you have and the vast majority of premodern men were peasants and pastoralists who couldn't get within a mile of wealthy men's steel swords. Modern men exercise and do sports for the same reasons modern women do - aesthetic and health and fun-based reasons based on our modern lifestyles and our access to wildly high levels of protein. Hoping that I can remember that instead of seeing sports like some kind of gender performance.

 

[stosa]

@lorial No I just always do what I’m drawn to weather it’s playing football or salsa dancing. But I’ve always been one to not give a damn about what anybody thinks and actually have difficulty absorbing social narratives of anything. I say do what makes you happy and makes you feel good

 

[veritas2016]

@lorial Have you thought about classes in martial arts or boxing or mma? I’m not 100% sure of the gendered dynamics/inclusivity of those spaces (I haven’t gone) but may provide a place for learning how to protect yourself while also working on fitness. Or look for alternative exercise beyond the gym? Rugby and rowing really helped me gain confidence in my own body’s strength and advantages (ex: height) while also building my fitness. I still get frustrated by much of what OP wrote, but then I remember I can crush it on the erg for an hour while the dude beside me can barely do 5 min. Added bonus when they are impressed that I can stay on that machine for so long.

 

[jess531]

@lorial I hate this thread because it's exactly how I feel. I know I have some kind of deeply internalized fear of men and being a victim of their violence which definitely is a huge part of that.

I think it has less of a impact on my relationship to exercise individually as it does with my relationship to exercise with others. In a kickboxing/judo environment it got to me often, it does most at normal/commercial gyms (specifically weights areas) but nowadays I climb. While some people are strong, everyone has to work around their body's limitations and lean into their advantages.

I climb with a friend of mine who's a builder, he's really strong and can muscle his way through most boulder problems. I've learned to throw my weight around, climb with precision, and save energy to get to the (very low) grade I'm at. So I'm often helping him as he works on a climb, sometimes I see him struggle on the balance-y slab climbs and feel better about myself heh.

I might not climb the highest grades, but more than a few times I've surprised people with what I can do and looked cool asf while doing it.

I'm not sure I can weigh in on the lifting part, but maybe incorporating more individual sports that value things like mobility, flexibility, endurance, precision, or speed might make you feel more capable? I think lifting and things like contact sport might exacerbate that awful feeling of being vulnerable to so many people. At least for me it did.

 

[denise_]

@lorial I feel the same way as you. I dont know how to encourage myself to workout with weights at the gym cuz im still a beginner and feel embarrassed to workout next to people who are stronger than me

 

[magnet21]

@denise_ Suggestion: Put loud happy music on your headphones. I'm so self-conscious normally, but with music I'm the weirdo singing and dancing at traffic lights.

Fact: No one else at the gym is judging you because they all got their own shit going on. And if they are, then judge them for being judgy because they don't count for shit. No, but seriously, most of us gym types are only thinking stuff like "You go, girl!" when we see beginners. Smile at us and we might just be happy to be your new best friend (we're too self-conscious to come over and say hi on our own). Don't smile at a man, obviously, that's just asking for grief.

But yeah, music's great. I just finished lifting heavy listening to Renee Gayer. Power women ballads and happy pop is a great nerve-killer

 

[denise_]

@magnet21 Haha tysmm for this!! Definitely makes me feel a bit better about going

 

[paigerific87]

@lorial First, I want to say that I do feel for you. Sorry your efforts to exercise more have brought up all these issues, and I wish you (and anyone else dealing with them) the best of luck.

With that said, I don't think it is "fat phobic" to acknowledge that being overweight is generally not healthy, and there's nothing wrong with people wanting to exercise to maintain a healthy weight.

Sincerely, somebody who feels a lot better about themselves when they aren't carrying 50 extra pounds....

Edit: to the people downvoting me, would you care to explain your logic? Because with the exception of people with eating disorders, I've never heard anyone say "I've gained 50 pounds and I feel great!" It's just not how the body generally works. My joints hurt more when I've gained weight, I have less energy, etc, etc. This is just biology (and physics) at work.

 

[lorial]

@paigerific87 If you're asking in good faith - I actually did gain quite literally 50 pounds recently after addressing my high cholesterol, going to therapy, and starting various meds. I feel absolutely amazing - my skin and hair are shining, my blood results are great, my cholesterol is low, I do yoga and walk each day, I'm trying strength training, and I can do cardio without worrying I will be so thin that my immunity is compromised (I used to quite regularly end up sick). But if you summarized my health via BMI I would simply be categorized "overweight". That is what fatphobia is - the use of medically disproven standards like BMI to create a one-size-fits-all rule that "more weight = almost always bad and unhealthy". I think it's very telling that in my post I merely said fatphobia is an issue in sports/exercise culture, and you immediately jumped in to say "actually losing weight is healthy". Losing weight is healthy and desirable for SOME PEOPLE, not all.

 

[worshiper1994]

@paigerific87 So, I'm not someone who downvoted you, but this is a copy paste I gave to someone else who was downvoted in regards to weightloss and exercise that likely applies, here:

"I didn't downvote you, but the community tends to have a range of feelings regarding posts in which weight loss is the reason for working out and restricting eating. Some people have ED who are triggered, some people think exercise shouldn't solely be done for weight management, others are cognizant of people who might be sensitive to it so don't like it, and other people are happy for you working towards what you feel you should work towards. In response to the feeling management, I think there is a weight change weds specifically for these kinds of posts.

Whether or not you agree with the sentiment is up to you, but that is often how people feel."

 

[paigerific87]

@worshiper1994 Listen, I have a sister who thankfully survived her anorexia, but it was close for a while and it's still a struggle for her. So I'm aware acutely aware that weight can be a very sensitive issue for people.

With that said, this is a fitness sub. If the subject of weight loss is so triggering to someone that a general mention of the fact that many people exercise, at least partially, to influence their body weight in a healthy way, then that person doesn't belong on a general fitness sub. But whatever, some people just can't handle the truth, even when presented in a fairly neutral and factual manner.

And yes, before somebody points it out, I generally don't like being downvoted for presenting facts. It irks the part of me which wants the world to be a better place- I don't feel like we, as a race, make progress towards a better tomorrow when we can't face the facts.

Oh well.

I do appreciate your comment, it is somewhat helpful to know where people are coming from, even if I think they are being way too sensitive.

 

[worshiper1994]

@paigerific87 Yep. People have feelings.

You can lose a whole lot of precious real estate by letting the tabulation of internet points live rent free in your head.

Anyway, you wanted a question answered, so I just posted a copypaste to help direct some reflection on what might of triggered it. It is a lovely Friday night, one of which I hope you enjoy.

 

[paigerific87]

@worshiper1994 Many thanks! Have a great weekend, yourself.

 

[redrabbit]

@paigerific87 As someone with a joint hypermobility disorder, my joints are not great on their own and get worse with my weight going up. So I maintain my weight in a 5 pound window because otherwise I can feel my joints trying to quit on me. I've already had 4 joint surgeries before age 30, I'm trying to avoid any others if I can.

 

[lordsgrace3]

@lorial Yes took me forever to start logging my weights bc I was worried about lack of progress causing demotivation. My bf and most advice was around how to get big/strong ASAP, so i felt like a poser. Had to strengthen my resolve that I'm lifting bc exertion feels good in my brain and any strength benefits are great too. I'm definitely not progressing as fast as I could be, but I've optimised my routine for my mental health instead.

 

[sarahdosher]

@lorial Yeah, I get this. I have one of the heaviest deadlifts for a woman in my gym, especially accounting for my size (250lbs, and I am about 140lbs at 5'6"). But, sometimes a new guy will come in and start at this weight. It's wild. I am often looking at the guys, counting their plates, and realizing how often they lift my body weight or many times my body weight. And... that sucks! Or, at least, it makes me feel some kinda way. Box jumps are also frequently mind boggling, because I can jump up to 32 inches, and the guys are often jumping ten inches higher than that.

It's really helpful for me to just remember how different our physiologies are. They have denser bones and muscles, larger hearts and lungs compared to their bodies, stronger tendons, and often nearly twice my size! It also helps that at least half of my gym is female, and so we have a great comradery and encourage one another - and mostly ignore the guys. I get a lot out of lifting up the other women.

 

[adonai1]

@sarahdosher Holy! That's impressive deadweight!!!!!

 

[jcphan47]

@lorial Well, I’m trans, so I might have a bit of a different perspective but I have found that as I transition I am much more willing to exercise. I used to say I hated exercise but I think I just hated the way exercising made me look. I’ve purposely and healthily lost 75 pounds over 2 years on my fitness journey.

When it comes to gender norms and social constructs I’ve discovered as I transition that both genders have it pretty fucking rough when it comes to societal expectations of fitness/weight/attractiveness/ they just get targeted differently.

I can assure you that while your experience is uniquely yours, there are a number of people along the gender spectrum that feel at least similarly.

 

[lorial]

@jcphan47 Thanks so much for your perspective. On another sub I talked to another queer trans woman about struggling with the social association between men/masculinity, strength, and rape/harm to women. It's tough!

 

[dustytoast]

@lorial Men and women are just two different biological species.

I do martial arts and I don’t care about being the strongest human in the room. (I.e needing to compete with men). I care about being a strong woman, and getting as strong as I can as an individual.

Even in female combat sports, if you go into a pro fight, you’ll be paired with someone at your weight class. Even woman to woman, a 5’11 180lb woman wouldn’t be paired up with a 5’5 130lb woman.

At the end of the day, it’s you vs. you. You can either do the sports you love and become better than who you were yesterday, or keep doing nothing stay the same and not ever push yourself. Who gives a shit what other people/genders are doing!