Is my pull day too much volume?

[masonmatt1000]

@jonathanef This sub is unfortunately obsessed with low volume failure training and people don’t understand nuance or training differences. This doesn’t scream too much volume to me because back can handle a lot of volume and different angles. Bent over rows are probably your main contributor to fatigue so if you’re not recovering adequately that’s where I’d cut volume. And you can also look at having one higher volume workout like this and your other back day lower. There are tons of options. I’ve recovered very well from a routine with more volume than this for back, but my other back day was only 3 exercises. You have to find what works for you. And keep in mind most of the people on here saying it’s too much volume are probably half your size.

 

[lookingforhope47]

@masonmatt1000 A general recommendation of 6–10 hard sets a week isn’t exactly “low volume failure training” IMO. There are some experienced lifters out there doing literally 1-2 sets of biceps curls (both to complete failure) once a week. Obviously, they’re likely to be more skilled than most and can generate a lot of mechanical tension with only 2 sets. Either way, I think most of us should be able to agree that 40 sets for back probably implies a good percentage of the sets are fluff volume.

 

[masonmatt1000]

@lookingforhope47 Wow way to prove my point - read my last sentence.
Also, don’t put words in my mouth, I never said 10 sets was low volume failure training, you incorrectly decided that’s what I meant. The 2 sets of biceps curls is such an outlier it’s not even worth discussing. There are people who do multiple sets of biceps every day, does that mean low volume doesn’t work? Horrible example.

 

[lookingforhope47]

@masonmatt1000 lol, pointing out someone’s size doesn’t 100% correlate to whether or not they’re knowledgeable on how to program and lift properly, so that’s a mute point Glad we’re deciding to go that route as adults though

The only point I was trying to make by mentioning the 1-2 sets of bicep curls is that clearly people can make progress on a very significant fraction of the volume OP is doing.

 

[masonmatt1000]

@lookingforhope47 You mean moot? I’ll absolutely go that route if someone is 6’2” 160. That’s I’ve never lifted in my life territory. Some people can progress doing different things, it doesn’t mean you need to homogenize everyone’s training.

 

[lookingforhope47]

@masonmatt1000 6’2 160 but probably significantly leaner and more athletic than you are also never tried to homogenize anyone’s training. Just would like to point out that OP could potentially get the same results with half the amount of sets. Anyways, have a good evening!

 

[masonmatt1000]

@lookingforhope47 Getting knocked over by a light breeze isn’t athletic. And if we’re talking about hypertrophy leanness is inconsequential. Stay on topic.

 

[lookingforhope47]

@masonmatt1000 If you’d like to stay on topic, I’ll leave this link here:

This was all I was trying to say

 

[masonmatt1000]

@lookingforhope47 Listen bro, I’m just having fun with you. Just recognize that junk volume isn’t an absolute, and people with different training styles can utilize higher volumes if intensity isn’t as high. Junk volume isn’t junk if it works. If you’ve stimulated muscle to its maximum (how would you measure that anyway?) then any volume past that point would be junk, and detrimental, and overtraining. Have a good evening bro.

 

[michael67]

@masonmatt1000 There is no lack of nuance. 40 sets of back is dumb, unless you can prove why it's not dumb, its dumb.

 

[sherahephraim]

@masonmatt1000 Upvote for most of this - it varies for everyone and if it works better than lower volume for OP, then yeah, you’re right. However he did ask ppl whether they thought it was too much - and for most, it probably is.

However this:
And keep in mind most of the people on here saying it’s too much volume are probably half your size.
… is just unnecessary drama and frankly not really plausible given OP does 8 pull ups max

 

[buggins]

@jonathanef It's too much volume for me. I hit back 2x a week and have 10 working sets(for back specifically, not necessarily in total) each day. I also have 2 different routines I rotate through in an attempt to balance consistency, variation, volume, and different angles. I would honestly suggest starting off with pullovers/Lat prayers/rear delt flys just to activate your back before going into your compound lifts if you aren't getting doms from all the volume you're currently doing. You don't want to be doing a ton of volume and pushing failure with them, just get a decent pump and try to build up your mind muscle connection so you're primed for your compound lifts. You can also use wrist wraps on pull day since grip strength often gives out before your back does. You might be surprised how much more weight you can lift wearing them. Just try not to go crazy adding too much extra weight too fast to avoid injury.

 

[jonathanef]

@buggins Would you please share your pull routine with me? I feel like 10 sets isn’t enough to efficiently hit all parts of the back. Thank you I appreciate the suggestions. I will try to activate my back with an accessory next time before I hit my compound.

 

[buggins]

@jonathanef Sure. I don't actually do a P/P/L split I do an U/L split. The key difference being that if I am getting the rest and recovery needed and feel up to it, I can get a third upper day in the same week and still get 2 rest days, or drop down to 3 days in a week and still hit upper twice with 4 rest days if I need it. Which is one of the reasons I prefer U/L.

Warmup:
External rotations
Front raises
Lat prayers
Cable crossovers
These are all done with cables and with medium intensity. I never approach failure. 2-3 sets of each. Just to get a pump.

Upper day 1:
Flat Bench 3x5 then 1 set of 10-15
Tbar rows 3x5 then 1 set of 10-15
Steep incline bench 3x5 then 1 set of 10-15
Close underhand Lat Pull downs 3x5 then 1 set of 10-15
Lateral raises 3x10-15
Barbell curls 3x10-15
French press 3x10-15

Upper day 2:
Shallow incline bench 3x5 then 1 set of 10-15
Wide overhand lat pull downs 3x5 then 1 set of 10-15
Weighted dips 3x10-12 then as many as I can do with no weight
Yates/low rows 3x5 then 1 set of 10-15
Overhead Press 3x10
Cable curls 3x10
Tricep extensions 3x10

I'm not saying this is the best split ever concieved and I'm sure more experienced folks will tear it to shreds, but this is my current upper routine and I'm honestly making really good gains with it.

 

[paulthomas]

@jonathanef Ask yourself if you are actually hitting the targeted muscle - especially training your back. Focusing on a slow eccentric with a deepstrech and a small pause at the end helped me tremendously.

Volume wise you are at the higher end - might work, but personally I would aim for 12-18 weekly sets. But everyone is build different.

Love your handle description!

 

[jonathanef]

@paulthomas Definitely try to keep my form strict other than my compound lift. What would remove/alter from my routine?

Thank you! Took me awhile to figure out how to describe it lol

 

[paulthomas]

@jonathanef If you are training back (or actually any musclegroup) twice a week, I would try to alternate your exercises - for example:

Day 1

Straight Arm pulldowns

Barbell Row

Day 2

Assisted Pull Ups

Cable Row

That is obviously just an example, but this way it is easier to improve and progress. Additionally I can recommend lifting straps/grips for backtraining. And the answer for developing a weaker bodypart is rarely increasing the volume!

 

[jonathanef]

@paulthomas Wow 2 exercises just seems crazy to me! Thank you again. Also I am digging your sneaker collection

 

[paulthomas]

@jonathanef Start low so you can add over time
Personally doing an Arnold Split - 2 Back exercises with the addition of either facepulls or shrugs (while leaning a bit forward to better target the traps).
Thank you! Collection just got bigger over time, lol.

 

[paulsimmonds60]

@jonathanef 30 sets is way too much. I assume you’re doing PPL 6x a week? That’s 24 weekly sets just on biceps! I’d take biceps to 6 sets on 2 exercises. Don’t forget they’re getting hit indirectly from all the compound pulls.

Rows to 4 sets. Pull-ups to 4 sets and scale down lat pulldowns and face pulls to 3 sets. Also some overlap with lat pulldowns and pull-ups so I’d make the pull-down a close grip pull-down to hit a different part of the lats. That would take you to a respectable 23 sets.

Focus on intensity, slower eccentrics and not stopping once you’ve hit 10 reps. Push each set to form failure.