Is there too much emphasis on strength in general and Weightlifting in particular in the Crossfit Opens workouts?

O

orochii7

New member
Crossfit® is arguably the most successful brand in the world of high intensity interval and mixed modal training. This can be attributed to various factors but the fact is that it brought improved cardiovascular capacity, strength, health, enjoyment and (fill in the blank space) to hundreds of thousands of people all over the world (including myself).

Programming include the disciplines of gymnastic skills, monostructural training and weightlifting/powerlifting and in keeping with the philosophy of exercise over broad time and modal domains, the countless WODs designed over time have produced some classic workouts.

However, upon studying the 51 WODs of the past ten years for the Crossfit Opens, there seems to be an imbalance in the programming and I would like the community to comment on their view on it.

The main point is the big emphasis on strength in general and weightlifting and powerlifting in particular. It needs to be stated that for the purpose of this piece, strength was considered any movement that stated a specific weight to be used, with the exception of wall balls.

Analysis of these WODs show the following:
  1. 23 Different exercises/movements were used (those similar to each other were counted as one, such as Cleans and C&J) for a total of 132 times.
  2. The individual movements most used were cleans and MU (11), thrusters and T2B (10), snatches (9) and deadlift and C2B (8).
  3. The percentages of individual movements used in WODs are 47% (strength), 31.8% (monostructural) and 29.5% (gymnastics).
  4. The percentages of WODs containing a specific discipline are 86.3% (strength), 68.6% (gymnastics) and 51.0% (monostructural). Furthermore, 49% of all WODs contained weightlifting or powerlifting.
Apart from these figures, there are further factors compounding the issue.

(a). Bodyweight. Of all the disciplines used in Crossfit, weightlifting and powerlifting are the only sporting codes that officially compete in weight classes. In an attempt to compare apples with apples, bodyweight plays a definitive role in these sports, one which Crossfit chose to ignore. Of course pure strength (regardless of bodyweight) should also play a role in our quest to find the “Fittest” but shouldn't just powerlifting movements settle that and then also in a more limited way? The point is that doing any WL/PL exercise the Crossfit way puts the “lighter” participants at an unfair disadvantage accroding to the rules of WL/PL, so it doesn't make sense that WL and PL appeared in 49% of all WODs.

(b). Weightlifting in particular is a highly technical skill that only comes from a lot of dedicated practice and expert guidance and the high incidence of these movements in the Opens, considering the wide variety of other movements and exercises available, doesn't make sense. Is it any surprise that people with great WL background continue to do so well compared to others?

(c). Degree of difficulty. The Opens should give ANY Crosfitter a reasonable chance to take part – surely it is a competition that aims to get as many people on board as possible, yet the standards required for some of the strength work for the Opens are just too high in my opinion (what about safety?). For the later rounds beyond the Opens it's fine but in the Opens itself you want people who have only an hour or so per day to train (the majority) to feel they have a realistic chance to compete. Why do we have WODs that eliminate a large portion of competitors before they even reach the end of it. Is this one of the reasons entries have fallen over the years?

Some examples:

Opens WOD 20.3 demanded an already fatigued participant to do a further total of 45 deadlifts at 142kg/310lbs (men) or 93kg/205lbs (women) in the second half. Worldwide only 0.39% (men) and 0.34% (women) could even finish the workout.

Opens WOD 20.4 demanded an already fatigued participant to do 10 C&J at 102kg/225lbs (men) or 66kg/145lbs (women) in one go (and that's only at the halfway mark). Not something that professional weightlifters would do, let alone with other exercises. Why then Crossfit? Completion rate was a staggering 0.19% (men) and & 0.45% (women).

Opens WOD 19.2 demanded an already fatigued participant to do 9 squat cleans at 125kg/275lbs (M) or 80kg/175lbs (W). Again not something that professional weightlifters would do, let alone with other exercises. Why then Crossfit? Completion rate was even worse at 0.07% (M) and 0.1% (W).

Are these figures indicating a reasonable workout for the average Crosfitter out there? Why the huge emphasis on exercises that uses the phosphagen metabolic pathway?

The following appeared in Crossfit.com in 2002:

Total fitness, the fitness that CrossFit promotes and develops, requires competency and training in each of these three pathways (phosphagen, glycolytic and oxidative) or engines. Balancing the effects of these three pathways largely determines the how and why of the metabolic conditioning or “cardio” that we do at CrossFit.

I'm looking forward to hear your thoughts.
 
@orochii7 Your analysis conveniently fails to account for a very important factor - the weight itself. The strength demand of snatching a 50 lb DB is vastly different from that needed to clean a 315 lb Barbell.

I'd also argue that a 95-100# thruster for 40+ reps (something that has come up in every single Open) is a muscular endurance and stamina movement that happens to include a barbell. Sure, some people will be strength limited but they were not going to be competitive anyway - I.e. some of those same people will also be strength limited by pull-ups and muscle-ups, which you're not considering as "strength" movements (and they've also been in every Open). For people who aren't strength limited, doing 40+ kipping CTBs in a 10ish min workout is also testing local muscle stamina and endurance.

Lastly, in your 19.2 example, you again conveniently fail to mention that participants had to clean 135, 185, and 225# (weights that are more doable for average CFitters) before the 275# bar. This sequence let's many participate while still allowing separation of the elite.

Is the Open programming perfect? No. But anyone claiming that it overemphasizes strength doesn't understand competitive CF and what seasoned CrossFitters are capable of doing.
 
@puttincomputers Thank you for this reply, completely agree. Leaving out the actual load itself effectively makes this whole analysis flawed.

In fact, labeling any movement with external load as “strength”, “weightlifting”, or “powerlifting” creates a biased idea of what the workout calls for.

Similar to what you mentioned, if one workout is 100 empty barbell thrusters for time, it’s pretty much monostructural vs that same workout but 50 reps at 135lbs or whatever.
 
@puttincomputers Thank you for your response.

On reflection, my post left too much for interpretation in various ways. Firstly, I should've specified that with strength, I meant using external weights. Sure, MU and C2B needs strength but I would argue that relatively speaking technique plays a more important role in these movements.

Your first sentence actually supports what I stated and that is that the weight itself plays a role. The article in The Gains Lab about Strength and Capacity (even though more of an anecdotal one) also proposed that the stronger athlete will do better than the one with better ability for lactate removal in a workout with that particular weight.

The most important point in my post is not that that there is a problem with strength workouts but simply that the percentage of them is too high compared to the others and thus favours the stronger athlete over those with stamina, great technique, etc.

Of course, if that is what the Crossfit Opens Workouts are all about (i'm not referring to any other aspect aspect of Crossfit), so be it, but then I would argue it takes away from a balanced approach to finding "The Fittest".
 
@orochii7 Still a wrong/incomplete perspective.

Consider this: a 45-55# barbell (for women) has been in the Open several times. There are many women who can lift that barbell repeatedly but can't do a single pull-up or muscle-up. What's the strength limitation then? Your blanket "external load = strength" argument falls flat on its face in this case. This is just one example of many, I'm not cherry picking.

Also, saying that CTB is more technique than strength completely ignores context, but then so does the rest of your ill-founded discussion here.
 
@puttincomputers I don't get the point of view from your reply, which is perhaps my fault (English not my first language) and I don't want to waste your time by going around in circles. Just to try and get your point: do you feel that pull-ups and muscle-ups should also be considered as strength exercises?
 
@orochii7 No, what I'm saying is that the argument is not as simple as "strength is overly tested".

A 95# bar will be a strength limiter for some men. For other men it will be a muscle endurance limiter. For others it might be a respiratory limiter. And for some it could be a mobility/technique limiter. You can't just look at a barbell and say "this is a strength test" without additional context

Also, the strongest person doesn't always win a CrossFit style metcon. In fact, (and I realize this is a special case) even at the highest level, other than Tia Clair Toomey, most CF champions have not been the competitor with the most raw strength in the field that year.

You're looking at a barbell and saying "strength" while completely disregarding whether the barbell weighs 75# or 315# or if the movement is a deadlift vs a push press. A 75# barbell for 7 minutes of power snatches is not a strength test.

Imagine that you said "all running tests endurance" without considering if the test is a 100m sprint or a half marathon. That would be ludicrous. But that's essentially what you're saying here: "all barbells test strength". No, that's not accurate. I don't know why you can't understand this.
 
@puttincomputers I didn't understand what you were trying to say because, as I've said, your initial discussion didn't make it clear to me (perhaps I'm just "slow"). However, your last response gave clarity and I (hopefully) comprehend what your point is (thanks). As you've said, context is critical and dividing exercises into either this or that is over-simplistic an incorrect.

Thanks again.
 
@orochii7 I don’t think the point of every open workout is for the ‘average’ CrossFitter to finish it. The specific wods you mention were designed to separate the elite from the pack, creating a fitness test that can rank even the most dedicated and gifted athletes on the same scale as average gym goers.
If you make all the tests easily completable by people like me, then the fitter stronger athletes have no other way to perform than by simply going faster.
 
@orochii7 The Open is open to everyone but that's still a qualifier for the Games so there'll always be clear cut-offs between gymgoers, hobbyists and actual athletes.

On to the individual points:

(a). Bodyweight. Of all the disciplines used in Crossfit, weightlifting and powerlifting are the only sporting codes that officially compete in weight classes. In an attempt to compare apples with apples, bodyweight plays a definitive role in these sports, one which Crossfit chose to ignore. Of course pure strength (regardless of bodyweight) should also play a role in our quest to find the “Fittest” but shouldn't just powerlifting movements settle that and then also in a more limited way? The point is that doing any WL/PL exercise the Crossfit way puts the “lighter” participants at an unfair disadvantage accroding to the rules of WL/PL, so it doesn't make sense that WL and PL appeared in 49% of all WODs.
Click to expand...

This completely disregards the fact that everything else cardio/gymnastic related favors lighter folks. This also touches on the fact that the sum of cardio/gymnastic workouts with barbell related events end up favoring shorter people, who have a shorter RoM and can pack relatively equal amounts of muscle while still weighing less. If you're 5'10 and weigh 155lbs the issue isn't that you're lighter than someone the issue is that you're too light for a strength sport at your given height.

On the same vein, the foundation of Crossfit is conditioning. It doesn't matter if you're stronger if all other more important things aren't equal. I got in Crossfit with a 440lbs deadlift and there were many wods with deadlifts that I lost to people far weaker than me simply because they were more conditioned. A #100 heavier deadlift doesn't mean anything if you're barely standing after a round of burpee box jumps. If all other things are equal of course being stronger is better, but that's the catch, if I weigh 200lbs and you weigh 180lbs all other things should not be equal. If I'm big and have big people numbers it's your obligation as a light dude to move like a light dude.

(b). Weightlifting in particular is a highly technical skill that only comes from a lot of dedicated practice and expert guidance and the high incidence of these movements in the Opens, considering the wide variety of other movements and exercises available, doesn't make sense. Is it any surprise that people with great WL background continue to do so well compared to others?
Click to expand...

This is the consequence of Crossfit as a sport. The "specificities" of Crossfit are easily achievable and have a very low ceiling. Performing DUs efficiently, butterfly pullups efficiently, kipping HSPUs efficiently are easily achievable for most people.

Being technically proeficient in weightlifting is a severe cut-off. Being very good at Muscle Ups is a severe cut-off...these are elements that are always present because they are good ways to split the athletes from the hobbyists. You can be as fast as Mat Fraser on 100 burpees for time without putting much effort, but you probably can't be as fast as him on 100 burpees for time+amrap of 225lbs snatches.

(c). Degree of difficulty. The Opens should give ANY Crosfitter a reasonable chance to take part – surely it is a competition that aims to get as many people on board as possible, yet the standards required for some of the strength work for the Opens are just too high in my opinion (what about safety?). For the later rounds beyond the Opens it's fine but in the Opens itself you want people who have only an hour or so per day to train (the majority) to feel they have a realistic chance to compete. Why do we have WODs that eliminate a large portion of competitors before they even reach the end of it. Is this one of the reasons entries have fallen over the years?
Click to expand...

Can't you do them scaled? Alas, ending a WOD doesn't mean anything in a vacuum. Different WODs are designed with different goals in mind. A 10' for time can be designed for only very conditioned people to finish it and another 10' for time can be designed for everyone to finish but conditioned people finishing much faster.

Think of these two WODs:
  • In the first 10' for time only 200 people in the world finished, best time was in the 9'10'' mark.
  • In the second 10' for time 50k people in the world finished, best time was 4'55''.
Do you feel any better about finishing the second in 9'57'' while being cap'd by the first?
 
@oddrob Thank you for taking time to reply in such length.

It is clear that my arguments weren't structured properly and that my context was poor because various replies indicate a misunderstanding of what I was trying to say. That is obviously my problem (English not my first language).
 
@orochii7 The open is for everyone, but that doesn’t mean everyone will finish every open workout as prescribed... you also claim that doing any weight or power lifting puts the “lighter” participants at an unfair advantage. I’m 6’5, any weight lifting also puts me at a disadvantage because of my height, same with handstand push ups, a longer cycle time on wall balls and thrusters, etc. you can’t make everything equal across the board.

Gymnastics and muscle ups are also a highly technical skill that only comes from a lot of dedicated practice and expert guidance as well. Why are gymnastics even a part of CrossFit at all then? I’m confused why weight should be removed from CrossFit in your opinion. If that’s the case, we may as well just have an endurance event or a Spartan race.
 
@katiejean Perhaps my post came across the wrong way but I most definitely don't want weights to be removed from the Opens; on the contrary. That just won't be Crossfit. I'm merely wondering whether the relatively higher percentage of exercises/workouts with external weights in them aren't too much?

Does that not unfairly benefit the participant with strength as best attribute over those with for instance stamina as strong point?
 
@orochii7 I think a lot of the weights in CrossFit are more about strength endurance rather than maximal strength.

Take for instance 95/#135 barbell thrusters for men compared to 275# barbell exercises like Cleans/Squats/Deadlifts
 
@orochii7 No. Everyone thinks CrossFit open is about lifting heavy, but it’s not. No, klokov will not win the open. I’ve argued with enough dummy’s about this.
And your two examples don’t make sense , because the way those workouts were designed, you had to EARN those weights. You weren’t reaching the 315 deadlifts or 275 cleans unless you were very fit.
 
@orochii7 The open has historically been a qualifier for the Games; in 2020 it was a direct qualifier. Heavy weights are a prerequisite for CrossFit competition.

There’s people who can clean 100# more than me and I can beat them because they’re too heavy for gymnastics or their cardio sucks.

Noah Olsen would say that 19.1 overemphasized cardio and penalized short people. It’s my opinion that the open is fairly well balanced.

There is little published literature featuring direct scrutiny of CrossFit© benchmark WODs or similar training styles. One such study concluded that the CrossFit© total explained 77% of the variance in benchmark WOD Grace.
Click to expand...

https://www.thegainslab.com/strength-and-capacity
 
@orochii7 Crossfit def values strength like you said. I knew a very capable guy who was maybe 5'4, he had packed about as much muscle on his tiny frame as possible but even for him the weights got to heavy. We know the sport favors shortish is to medium sized guys, think 5'9 was the median at the games. It is what it is.

I'll add weightlifting is a really poor measure of fitness, it's really a skill yet yes we still have it and it's not going anywhere. Deal with it.

At the end of the day the movements are pretty well established and like it or not if you want to progress in the sport you're going to have to practice them. A lot of gyms leave things like snAtches out of the daily wod bc ppl don't like them and then they get blindsided in the open. I think more boxes need to focus more on high skill stuff as opposed to just killing them w cardio.
 
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