Please don’t kip in your handstand push ups

[channel7]

Hey everyone!

I’m prepared to take flack for this but I’ve got to say it. I’ve coached CrossFit classes for a long time (since 2013) and I have seen a growing trend towards putting kips into handstand push ups. If you couldn’t guess it by the title, I really do not like this trend. I am speaking solely about the lipping handstand push up (HSPU). I love the strict HSPU and find it a valuable exercise if performed properly.

My reasons are as follows:

1) They can directly cause neck injury due to exhausted athletes being unable to control their eccentric motion.
2) If 1 pound of bodyweight 4 pounds of pressure at the knee, then what is that equal to at your cervical spine. Meaning that when you are doing HSPU you are performing a high impact exercise. The point of impact is your head. Keep in mind that there is also acceleration from gravity.
3) Adding the kip to the HSPU turns it into a power movement, whereas the strict HSPU is a more “slow strength” type of calisthenic. Power-development moves are characterized by extreme force over short periods of time. With exhaustion, power movements can become increasingly dangerous.

Additionally the case has been made to me in the past that the intensity of the workout or WOD must remain high in order for it to be effective. I disagree with this too because while intensity is important and necessary, moving safely should be paramount.

EDIT: A lot of counterarguments I have seen suggest stopping push presses and push jerks too based on this argument. To those people: are you making contact with your head in a push press or push jerk?

I believe that we should make all HSPU strict. I think it should be a standard in the Games as well as in every box in order to protect our athletes.

My question is who agrees or disagrees with this position? And why?

 

[vessels]

@channel7 Agree. That being said I’ve been working on strict HSPU but still struggling like woah. For a few weeks I was doing negatives and strict presses. Then I felt I wasn’t making any progress and got discouraged. Any tips ? I’m a 5’10 female with long limbs and this is definitely my weakest gymnastics movement.

 

[drjleo]

@vessels Try using a box to put your feet on. The lower the box the easier the handstand push up. The higher the box the harder it is. Work your way up to having your feet against the wall.

https://wodlife.net

 

[ilikemango]

@vessels It's my weakest movement as well. I really struggle to develop shoulder strength for some reason. I've been trying to incorporate more strict presses into my supplemental work.

 

[barbs]

@vessels It took me almost a year to get HSPU. A year of working on strength. Lots of dips, holds, negatives (with and without deficits) and pressing. When I finally got 1 strict, we worked it into an EMOM... and kept adding volume. 11 months later I did 10 strict for time... 22 seconds

Having the strength to maintain control is so important. This is one movement you don't want to rush.

 

[carsuejohn]

@vessels I agree that taking a step back from the gymnastic element and investing time into building a larger foundation of sheer pressing strength would probably benefit you more ie Strict Press . In Addition I would add that adding more core resist strength ( Weighted Planks ) and Pressing Variations that encourage scapular strengthening ( floor seated press variants ) would be a big benefit for you.

checkout Marcus Filly(@marcusfilly) on Instagram for ideas.

 

[kerrirebecca]

@vessels You should try swimming a day or two per week. Swimming is shoulder intensive and low impact so it's a good opportunity to work on your shoulder strength without beating up your body too much. I've been a lifelong swimmer and it's kept my shoulders strong into my 30's and although I'm probably about 25 lbs overweight (also female), I can still do a few strict HSPU's.

 

[celticghirl]

@channel7 TBF: An exhausted athlete has as much of a chance of injuring themselves during the eccentric part of the movement regardless of kip or not.

The kip affects the force applied going up and has definite risks, but anytime we lower ourselves onto our head from full extension we run the risk of injury regardless of how we propel ourselves upwards.

Personally, I believe people attempt to kip their HSPUs before they have the requisite strength. We don’t teach butterflies to people who can’t do strict pull-ups, for example. There are a whole list of requisite movements that are considered almost mandatory to be completed before moving onto more advanced techniques throughout all the advanced motions of CrossFit. For some reason, the HSPU seems to defy this and so many people learn to kip before they can perform strict, leading to injury and frustration.

 

[soldoutbeliever]

@celticghirl This is also true for me. My strict HSPU is not as perfect as I would like it to be but my coach coaxed me to do the kipping HSPU after seeing i was capable of the strict version and I fear the whole HSPU more now. Haven’t been injured...yet..but nonetheless, I totally agree with you.

 

[keeneve]

@celticghirl Agreed that the eccentric motion is risky regardless of how you propel yourself upwards, and that strict should be a prerequisite for kipping, but wouldn't doing only strict instead of kipping help reduce risk by reducing the number of times an athlete would do the eccentric movement altogether?

 

[celticghirl]

@keeneve It does. However, that’s true with any motion in CrossFit. There is room for injury in many of CrossFit’s movements and the fast, repetitive manner in which they’re done does nothing to ease the odds of injury.

 

[dawn16]

@celticghirl Not to mention “they can directly cause injury due to exhausted athletes being unable to control their eccentric motion” could be said about half the movements in crossfit

 

[ihaverisen123]

@dawn16 Dropping yourself on the head is much more dangerous than failing in other movements, though.

 

[dawn16]

@ihaverisen123 Is it? I’ve seen people injured on pull ups, toes to bar, jerks, cleans, thrusters, deadlifts, squats, snatches, box jumps... seems presumptuous to claim HSPU are much more dangerous

 

[ihaverisen123]

@dawn16 OK. So neck isn't more important for life than lower back? I'm not talking about risk of injury but how bad the injury would be.

 

[dawn16]

@ihaverisen123 I would much rather fall on my head in a HSPU than drop a heavy loaded barbell on my head. I do my HSPU on an ab mat

 

[helloitsme]

@celticghirl

For some reason, the HSPU seems to defy this and so many people learn to kip before they can perform strict, leading to injury and frustration.

The coaches at my first gym taught kipping first; my current gym only teaches kipping HSPUs to those who want to compete. Poor coaching is likely the reason you see this being so common.

 

[baloyij]

@celticghirl couldn’t have said it better

 

[channel7]

@celticghirl I agree. Kips are seen as a scale up to a movement and not as an advanced skill within the movement to be cultivated after the initial exercise.

I just feel that when someone bends their knees to come down and “chamber” for their kip, it causes more force coming down on their head because of he legs are moving downward as well.

In addition to this, when someone kips upward there is more force present going up, indicating that there is also more force downward onto your C1 and C2 (1st two cervical vertebrae). Plus think about the different accelerations you see in the movements. They just aren’t the same with the kip added.

 

[celticghirl]

@channel7 You’re right that bringing the knees down to “chamber” for the next kip does apply more force downwards (F=ma) as the legs increase the acceleration of the body downwards in conjunction with gravity. However, and this is the part that’s easier said than done, an athlete should not be allowing the full force of the drop to impact them directly on their head and neck.

I would counter that the amount of force applied to the vertebrae of the neck is only truly dependent on the amount of force with which an athlete allows. One definitely should not be allowing the full weight of their body to just slam down on the floor/mat/whatever without any eccentric force applied to slow their descent.

Basically, a HSPU can be dangerous, yes. However, done properly they aren’t inherently any more dangerous than many of the other motions involved in CrossFit. An athlete is just as prone to herniating a disc doing a lift improperly, dislocating a shoulder from an improper TGU, or any number of things that could potentially go wrong. It is, as they say, the nature of the beast. Fortunately, an attentive and well-educated coaching team can help prevent these types of injuries by moving their members through proper scaled movements, coaching on correct form for the more dangerous and difficult movements before letting them run wild during a WOD and stopping the members from letting their egos get the better of them.