@guidinglight They are good form. Just not strict form. 
guidinglight
New member
mobileleprechaun
New member
@channel7 I agree for all the reasons you stated.
When working towards hspu I worked starting with my knees on a box. That was a strict movement. I'd also perform controlled negatives (controlled being the keyword here!). Then I did kipping hspu? Weird progression.
I've never understood how Crossfit always says for something to be intense it has to be fast and at high reps. Something slow can be intense as well.
I don't have great volume when it comes to strict hspu, but I was super excited to see them in the 2019 open!
When working towards hspu I worked starting with my knees on a box. That was a strict movement. I'd also perform controlled negatives (controlled being the keyword here!). Then I did kipping hspu? Weird progression.
I've never understood how Crossfit always says for something to be intense it has to be fast and at high reps. Something slow can be intense as well.
I don't have great volume when it comes to strict hspu, but I was super excited to see them in the 2019 open!
@mobileleprechaun “Something slow can be intense as well” 
You clearly don’t know what the definition of intensity is...
You clearly don’t know what the definition of intensity is...
mobileleprechaun
New member
@dawn16 Which is a more intense exercise? Performing 30 x 100# back squats or 15 x 250# back squats in the same time frame?
The 250# back squats are likely to be slower but will be more intense. If your definition of intensity is measured purely by speed then why don't we just all use PVC pipes for everything?
The 250# back squats are likely to be slower but will be more intense. If your definition of intensity is measured purely by speed then why don't we just all use PVC pipes for everything?
@mobileleprechaun Of course 15x250 is more intense, because the time is fixed. When the time is not fixed, like doing strict or hspus, the kipping will increase your power output. Intensity is work/time. Same work in less time=more power output, so more intensity. Try again.
@channel7 100% agree. I stopped doing kipping HSPU's 5 years ago for all the reasons you cited; it is a rediculously dangerous movement. I do the occasional WOD subbing strict for kipping , bit if you are only concerned with your open score, there is no way anyone can match a competitor doing kipping against your strict. Just have to eat your score from last week. 
@channel7 There are some controversy in the topic.
On one hand I fully agree that people should not be doing kipping unless able to do strict (more than 5-10). Many box seem to agree and preach “strict before kip” or “proper mechanics first” and then encourage people to kip for the sheer factor of quick satisfaction. We like the feeling of being able to perform a complex and hard movement but that’s hardly an achievement if the eccentric part is fully uncontrolled. The same goes for Pull-up. How many of us heard newbies complaining about sore or even torn rotator cuff or lats?
Having said that though, kipping or butterfly are different movements from strict. Sure they share similar movement patterns and muscles but involves much more. It requires timing, good proprioception and athleticism. It has its values and I think it deserves a place in the training regime but certainly not as a mean to squeeze some extra reps after fatigue kicks in and definitely not as a shortcut to be able to do a movement.
If I need to choose between kipping the wrong way or no kipping I would choose no kipping anytime.
On one hand I fully agree that people should not be doing kipping unless able to do strict (more than 5-10). Many box seem to agree and preach “strict before kip” or “proper mechanics first” and then encourage people to kip for the sheer factor of quick satisfaction. We like the feeling of being able to perform a complex and hard movement but that’s hardly an achievement if the eccentric part is fully uncontrolled. The same goes for Pull-up. How many of us heard newbies complaining about sore or even torn rotator cuff or lats?
Having said that though, kipping or butterfly are different movements from strict. Sure they share similar movement patterns and muscles but involves much more. It requires timing, good proprioception and athleticism. It has its values and I think it deserves a place in the training regime but certainly not as a mean to squeeze some extra reps after fatigue kicks in and definitely not as a shortcut to be able to do a movement.
If I need to choose between kipping the wrong way or no kipping I would choose no kipping anytime.
cybermintz
New member
@untreue I got a neck injury from literally just doing ONE bad kipping rep. And at the time, I had the strength to do about 8-9 strict. Just imagine the danger to all of the people who can’t do them strict yet. I understand it involves more than just the strict version and has values in itself. Even so, it does not deserve a place in anyone’s training regime. It needs to be purged from CrossFit, honestly. If it could have hurt me so bad (I couldn’t even turn my head for over three weeks and it actually took months before I felt 100% again, and I’m only 28), just imagine the danger it represents for the average Crossfitter. Especially if it really was kipping HSPU that hurt Brooke Wells’ neck.
@cybermintz Honestly curious. What happened on the bad rep?
cybermintz
New member
@dawn16 I was lowering down on the eccentric and I didn’t slow myself down enough. I was already under fatigue because it was the 3rd or 4th round. It didn’t hurt or anything. I just though to myself to slow down more on the next one. I did the rest of the workout correctly. It’s possible the act of pushing off the top of my head agitated it further. On the way home, I felt the back of my neck was a little stiff. Nothing more than that. No pain, just a little stiff.
But when I woke up the next day, OH. MY. GOD. I couldn’t even turn my head left or right more than 2 inches. And the pain was throbbing and unbearable at the base of my skull.
But when I woke up the next day, OH. MY. GOD. I couldn’t even turn my head left or right more than 2 inches. And the pain was throbbing and unbearable at the base of my skull.
@cybermintz Is it something that's set you back a long time or something that went away after a week? Did you see a doc or pysio?
I'm working on getting HSPU myself. Would you think it's safer with an ab mat?
I'm working on getting HSPU myself. Would you think it's safer with an ab mat?
cybermintz
New member
@dawn16 I went to a chiropractor immediately after.
I said above that I could not turn my head to the left or right more than two inches for about three weeks. And I did not gain full mobility until after 2 months. It took even longer than that to feel completely 100%. It COMPLETELY derailed my training. I couldn’t even do air squats with that kind of pain.
I recommend only practicing stricts. No kipping. Use bands and partials to scale it. Practice your strict barbell overhead press alongside it. Don’t rest your head on the ground ever (only lightly touch at the bottom, like a light “kiss”) and you should be fine.
I said above that I could not turn my head to the left or right more than two inches for about three weeks. And I did not gain full mobility until after 2 months. It took even longer than that to feel completely 100%. It COMPLETELY derailed my training. I couldn’t even do air squats with that kind of pain.
I recommend only practicing stricts. No kipping. Use bands and partials to scale it. Practice your strict barbell overhead press alongside it. Don’t rest your head on the ground ever (only lightly touch at the bottom, like a light “kiss”) and you should be fine.
@channel7 Just as a thought experiment: what part of this argument wouldn't apply, or couldn't be applied, just as convincingly (or not convincingly, depending) to any and every other movement? That is, "don't do push presses, only do strict presses!" Or "don't do kipping pull-ups, only do strict pull-ups"?
@oxo You aren’t hitting your head on the bar for a push press. You are guaranteed 1 head impact per rep when doing HSPU and adding the kip increases the downward acceleration onto your head, creating a high impact exercise.
Push press are also high impact but it is different because your head is never in contact with the bar.
Push press are also high impact but it is different because your head is never in contact with the bar.