Rear delt flyes needed for rear delts or pulls and rows enough?

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setst777

New member
Ive come to the realisation that i was doing more volume than i could recover from so im trying to cleaning up everything that could be redundant. Everyone always says presses are enough for front delts so very little ovh p is enough, why isnt it the same for rear delts?

No matter the excercise or form, ive never felt them hammer my rear delts. No where near what wide grip upper back rows with partials at the end do.

My chest/back 2x a week is

2 x wide grip pulldowns

2 x narrow grip pulldowns

2 x wide grip upp back row with partials to murder rear delts

2 x narrow lat biased row

Presses

2 x flat press

2 x low incline press

2 x high incline press

2 x ovh press

And 12 sets per week of lateral raises on my shoulders/arms day. Been doing rear delts too but thinking of removing them.
 
@setst777 I always listened to John Meadows advice on this one. Nobody has overdeveloped rear delts and almost everyone benefits of direct rear delt work. So I usually do 3 sets twice per week on the cables
 
@setst777 Some guys can really pull with their rear delts along with their upper back some don't. I think you know which camp you're in. Having 6 to 9 sets of isolation work for the rear delts is probably the least likely thing to cause you too much fatique.

They are so low fatique that doing them by themselves would be a waste of time so I'd recommend supersetting with chest, legs, arms or abs
 
@setst777 Everybody's different, but personally I do a type of shoulder fly, cable and dumbbell, 3 days a week, and I do all of them bent forward at about 45 degrees to target the rear delts more. I figure the front delts get plenty of work Benching 2x per week, Incline press 1x, overhead press 1x and kettlebell swings 1x per week. I also do barbell row 2x per week, and Dumbbell row 1x per week. Not to mention pull-ups.
 
@setst777 For some people it's enough. For others it isn't. Maybe take a look at your body and ask yourself: are my rear delts large enough? Or is there something else you'd like to work on first?

If overall mass is something you want, and rear delts specifically aren't something you need to grow, then maybe skip rear delt flyes and instead do a different movement that consolidates several muscle groups in one. A good example is a cable low-to-high face pull (meaning it'll look quite similar to the upright row). It'll work your side and rear delts as well as your traps, giving you a pretty good bang for your buck.
 
@reemal That was actually the best answer here. I get to lower my volume, but keep the rear and side delt volume the same. Thanks a lot. Going to try these today. I like to do facepulls lying down to be stable, how do i do them then? All the way up i suppose instead of the lowest so the attachmenr angle is the same?
 
@setst777 I think I linked it in the comment, the attachment is low and you bring your hands up really high, like you normally do in a face pull. It should look similar to an upright row, but with a slight modification since the cable stack is in front of you and since you'll be bringing your hands up higher than you would with an upright row.

BTW, when I don't have much time to spend in the gym, my "shoulder" workout (as part of my upper-lower split) looks like this: dumbbell shoulder press, low-to-high cable face pull. And that's it.
 
@setst777 According to Dr. Mike Israetel:

https://rpstrength.com/expert-advice/rear-delt-size-training-tips

"MV = Maintenance Volume:
The rear delts can be sustained with no direct work so long as pulling work for the back is still done.

MEV = Minimum Effective Volume:
Most intermediate-advanced lifters need at least 6 sets of direct rear delt work per week to make gains. The rear delts recover very quickly, and training them once a week is unlikely to lead to consistent gains past the beginner stage. At least 2 weekly sessions are recommended (3 sets each to hit MEV for the well-trained), and 3-5 weekly sessions are probably going to result in much better gains for this quickly recovering muscle group."
 
@setst777 Unless you're getting on stage anytime soon, I'd suggest to trying to remove the rear delt iso for a 3-6 months, take before and after pics in similar lighting, similar vicinity to similar training and see what you think.

Everyone is a bit different, and while some might get enough rear delt from rows and pulldowns, some won't!
 
@setst777 Rear delts need you to take your time and concentrate, if you rush through the movement at the bottom it’s easy to put a bunch of the load in your forearms and biceps as you pull or use too much momentum. At the top end of the movement it’s easy to get too much trap involvement as you either fly or row, it might take takea little less weight and also I using bands and chains makes it easier to remove momentum out of the hole that you get trying to move heavier loads but still keeps the top range of the rep more difficult as you try to squeeze through your movements. Rear delts weren’t as tough for me to develop as my calves but they weren’t that far off.
 
@setst777 Unless you are specifically having an issue with recovery in your rear delts, I have a hard time believing that removing any amount of rear delt isolation volume is going to improve your recovery ability to any significant degree. Rear delt work just isn't that fatiguing (side note: I know I spelled that right, but wtf 'fatiguing' looks weird). If you're having some systemic recovery issues, it's more than likely from heavy hitters or just a lifestyle issue. Maybe you need more sleep, more food, more water, etc.

That said, if you want them to grow you should probably do some direct rear delt training. If you're fine with their current size, just make sure you get a good amount of rows in and you should be fine.
 
@setst777 Try Y Raises with back extension super sets. Great way to end back day could even do a after rear flys since the y raise is more vertical and hits the muscle from a different angle.
 
@setst777 The only time I've seen rear delt growth was when I trained them directly. Dumbbell raises are the best, reverse cable flies second. For me.
15+ reps and many sets just like lateral delts.
 
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