Routine consern

[veganbros]

Hi there, fisrt time posting here, i hope you are all well. I am 29, well feed and healthy. 85kg

I started a bulking period (the second one) with a new trainer. But i have doubts about the plan he laid out for me.

Back and biceps day

1 - snatch grip deatdlift 4 x 6reps rpe 7

2 - lat pulldown 3 x 8- 10 reps rpe 7-8

3 - Chest supported row 3x 10-12 reps rpe 8-9

4 - low cable rope hammer curl 3x10 rpe 8-9

5 - seated face pull 3x 12-15 reps rpe 8-9

6 - lying leg curl 2x 15-20 reps rpe 9-10

In simple terms, he has an aproach of "efficient" effort.

For example: Back and biceps day: he places 1 snach deadlift, 3 back exercises, 1 bicep exercise and lying leg curl.

I questioned him why do i have only 1 bicep exercise in that day (and another one 3 days later). Shouldn't i have 3 consecutive exercises so i can estimulate the musle better? He responded that it was a matter of doing the right ammount of effort, placing 3 exercises would create a "waste volume" that would affect the rest of the routine.

The thing is, whichever bulking routine you can google has at least 3 exercises per musle, so whats wrong here, is he right or what?

Thanks!

 

[ransomovitch]

@veganbros Lat pulldowns and rows both work the bicep indirectly. Compound movements give you more bang for your buck, so if your goal is to bulk then it makes sense to focus more on compounds than isolation exercises. If you're really wanting to bulk your arms, focusing on your triceps will actually make the arms look bigger.

 

[shofargod]

@ransomovitch You should 100% isolate biceps, even if doing vertical and horizontal pulls, otherwise you'll like like a spider

 

[jbrad01x]

@veganbros depend decide bear spoon cautious nippy childlike chop cobweb consider

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

 

[samamph]

@jbrad01x I would guess that the trainer is suggesting a rep range to dial in the right intensity. For example, with the exercises 3x10, and the RPE at 8, trainer wants client lifting 70% of 1RM and leaving a couple reps in the tank. He's just using the 10 reps as a starting point.

And I think the trainer is telling client (who wants to do 3 different exercises on Pull Day for biceps, likely adding up to 18 sets per week) that the extra biceps work is junk volume.

Not taking trainer's side here, but I think you're being a bit harsh on the trainer (and CPTs in general). Took me more than a month to take a test and get a certificate.

And I haven't seen the whole program, but this workout looks like your standard fare out of The Muscle and Strength Pyramid: Training book. If I was the client, I'd go with it and see how it works for them. Maybe just throw in an additional biceps exercise at 4x10ish to get to a total of 10 sets/week.

 

[jbrad01x]

@samamph middle edge telephone innate pause wrench humorous somber license materialistic

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

 

[samamph]

@jbrad01x OP's not untrained, this is his second bulk. And 10-15 sets per muscle group/week definitely in the wheelhouse.

For back, 6 sets for vertical pulls per week, 6 sets for horizontal pulls per week seems reasonable. And starting with snatch grip deads at RPE 7 seems fine. Plus, on top of a calorie surplus.

Granted, we're politely debating this after only seeing one day (of how many days/week, we don't even know) of a fairly standard hypertrophy program.

 

[jbrad01x]

@samamph It’s 16 sets of back work in a single day. The week is not the only metric for measuring volume. That’s still 133% of maximum adaptive volume for the day and that’s assuming the individual is intermediate to advanced.

Also, 10-15 sets as a blanket rule for all muscle groups is ignorant when you consider that MRV for hamstrings is 12 sets for an intermediate lifter. And there’s hardly ever any reason to train up to MRV on anything. It’s just not a well-thought out routine. It’s cookie cutter, at best, and ignorant at its worst.

Thirdly, “untrained” doesn’t mean literally never touched a weight in their life. It just means relative to their over all lifting career. And a second bulk could mean like 3 months of prior training. Best-case you could call them beginner, which still makes the routine a poor fit.

 

[samamph]

@jbrad01x

It’s 16 sets of back work in a single day

Uh, ... no idea where you came up with 16 sets. 10 sets of back work, and some bis and rear delts thrown in, with a dash of hams at the end. I wouldn't consider snatch grip deads at RPE 7 as "high fatigue." And his MAV is going to go up each training session of the mesocycle.

We're just going in circles, I respect your opinion. I also disagree with it in this instance.

edit: Oof! those edits, bro. I don't think MRV and MAV mean what you think they mean. You have a nice day. I'll languish in my ignorance.

 

[jbrad01x]

@samamph Facelifts and deadlifts still target the back. Deadlifts amass a good amount fatigue, at that.

I accidentally counted the curls, but that’s still 13 sets which is far too much. If all of those sets were executed within 3 RIR with good form, a beginner should not be able to recover from that and if so, not for very long. That’s something at most you would do at the end of a mesocycle before a deload.

Yes, his MAV goes up but that’s HIS MAV relative to his previous tolerance. He is not exceeding the average MAV for a intermediate lifter likely ever but definitely not as a beginner unless he’s some freak of nature or running a test blast.

 

[samamph]

@jbrad01x Your name sounded familiar. I remember you back in the day on the DD on bodybuilding. I think we're both 4 stars.

 

[jbrad01x]

@samamph I still poke around there but it’s not like it used to be.

 

[dreword]

@veganbros Just curious, how much can you deadlift and what do you weigh?

 

[veganbros]

@dreword i weight 85kg. I don know mi 1 rep maximum, but it is between 120 kg - 130 kg

 

[dreword]

@veganbros Sorry I saw the body weight after I posted lol. You could literally just ditch that whole routine and just focus on driving your DL up to at least double what your at now and do chins. I don’t know what the rest of your routine is by I would guess you could ditch all that too and just focus on getting all your lifts up. You will gain a whole lot of muscular body weight just getting your lifts up and with a lot more simple programming

 

[ericph]

@veganbros

I can't share the routine because its inside an app.

Just wondering whether you could do a screen capture of it instead?

For example: Back and biceps day: he places 1 snach deadlift, 3 back exercises, 1 bicep exercise and lying leg curl.

How many sets/reps are the bicep exercise for? How long have you ran his program for? To be honest nobody is why not add another bicep exercise to the program? Also depends on what the back exercises are, if there's any form of pull-ups then that will hit your arms as well, so will rows.

 

[veganbros]

@ericph Back and biceps day

1 - snatch grip deatdlift 4 x 6reps rpe 7

2 - lat pulldown 3 x 8- 10 reps rpe 7-8

3 - Chest supported row 3x 10-12 reps rpe 8-9

4 - low cable rope hammer curl 3x10 rpe 8-9

5 - seated face pull 3x 12-15 reps rpe 8-9

6 - lying leg curl 2x 15-20 reps rpe 9-10

 

[ericph]

@veganbros How long have you been running this program? Did you specifically ask that you wanted to prioritise bicep/arms development?

There is still a lot of arm work here. Maybe another bicep exercise would help.

 

[veganbros]

@ericph I just started. This is one day of a musle mass increase program.

 

[ericph]

@veganbros OK - personally I'd would give it a few weeks before worrying about the lack of volume. Check-in in a few weeks time with the trainer time and then if you have issues with the lack of volume for biceps then raise it there. Give the trainer and program a chance.
Has the trainer given you a nutrition program as well? You mention bulking so I assume they have mentioned you need to be hitting a calorific surplus etc?