Time and time again the guys adding the most LBM/density are the ones focused on moving big loads (regardless of rep range)

[onepassionate1]

@kelsay One place I see this mentioned is in the Tactical Barbell page.

My initial thoughts would be an appearance of firmness but I imagine density would be more something tactile and not visible.

 

[dawn16]

@kelsay That is allways what I wonder when people say it. Do they mean if you take a biopsy of an area you will find more fibers per volume than normal? Or is it just visual.

 

[niecey85]

@fender75 This smells like confirmation bias.

Let's dissect the post:

Starting with the picture, if you account for angles and lighting, the change is there but it isn't huge.

Left - 168 lbs - April 2017⁣⁣Right - 181 lbs - June 2020⁣⁣

13 lbs, 3 years.⁣⁣ Very relevant.

3 Biggest Things I Did In This Off Season⁣ ⁣Train with higher intensity & accuracy

HighER, not high. ⁣And which type of intensity: relative, absolute, or effort? Not really clear.

2 - Train with less volume

LESS, not low. ⁣Down in the comments he says he trains 1.5-3 hrs per session with a PPL split with roughly a 2x/muscle/week frequency, that's not low volume.

3 - Train with less frequency.

LESS, not low. Later in the comments he says he trains each muscle roughly 2x per week. ⁣

Progress your logbook and your bodyweight⁣⁣

Some relevant good advice that shouldn't be dismissed.

 

[betelo995]

@niecey85 168 lbs is 76.27 kg

 

[mcolley10]

@niecey85 In his post today he says 3-5 sets an exercise is high volume, but then sets he uses at least 3 warmers for a compound lift before getting to working sets, when someone asks where a good starting point is for a lower volume high-intensity program he says 8-15 working sets per session. That math doesn't add up. Unless he knows people that are doing 3 warm-up sets and then 5 working sets? that would be insane volume. I think the people he is referring to doing high volume are people that are just doing ridic volume, but average gen pop gym goers, not people whose training is properly planned out.

 

[niecey85]

@mcolley10 Yeah that's why I don't like when people just use the terms "high/low volume" and "high/medium/low intensity" without specifying numbers or definitions, because then everyone mean different things but argue about the title regardless, so the argument never gets anywhere.

 

[ckp737]

@niecey85 Ben Howard trains 3x a week, won titles, low volume high intensity, trained that way for 10 years.

 

[niecey85]

@ckp737 It would help if you put numbers on "low volume", what you mean by "high intensity" and what split he uses for "3x/w" training. There absolutely are people who got great results with low volumes, like someone I follow, Jeff Alberts.

The person OP cited tho doesn't use neither low volume nor low frequency, his phrasing only seems to indicate that he did more before, so it's relative.

 

[ckp737]

@niecey85 He uses PPL and upper/lower. 3 days a week training that’s it.

 

[niecey85]

@ckp737 Understandable, very standard strategy. What about this:

It would help if you put numbers on "low volume", what you mean by "high intensity"

 

[ckp737]

@niecey85 Ok, he does one top set followed by one back off set, a upper day would consist of, 2xchest, 2xback , 2xshoulders, 1xbiceps, 1xtricep. Week one U/L/U week two L/U/L.

 

[niecey85]

@ckp737 So that's like 3 sets per muscle group per week? Low volume no doubt.

 

[fender75]

@niecey85 Going by his exercise execution its effort if Im understanding the terms correctly. He also said he likes doing 10 total sets per workout and only does PPLx2 every 10 days. So maybe a lot of intra-workout rest, lol. Setting up for big lifts and whatnot. And yes as others have said the current best LW in the world Ben Howard (another UK guy) does PPLx2 every 14 days. So each week is just 1 round of PPL. He preaches this style as the key to his success. Not that this means too much bc different people have different styles but these are the trends I and others have noticed

 

[niecey85]

@fender75 So you're saying that because one guy does what really is a lower take on medium volume, and one does low volume, that that represents what's best?

PPL 1x, even if it is "PPL", is a bro split. When we say "bro-split" we're talking about that scheme as well as the one body part per day split. Bro splits have been a standard in the pro scene for a long time now, and as for why they get the results they get, it's very simple and we call it every time: bro splits work, they're just slower, because you're just taking extra breaks beyond the time during which your muscle grows, time that you could have used to hit it again. So all you need is to train for a long enough time. Two identical twins, one doing PPL 1x and another one doing PPL 2x are going to get to the same level of development only one is going to get there after say 5 years and the other one is going to get to that same level after 7.5 years (double the frequency isn't really double the gains), assuming they go beyond 10 sets per muscle group per week to exceed the point of diminishing returns per session, which they totally should as advanced and pros.

 

[fender75]

@niecey85 No definitely not. Didnt mean for it to come across that way, my b. I forget if I added the end of that comment as an edit or if it was part of my original reply but it's more so based off of strong trends that I and others have noticed.

And interesting to hear the take on PPLx1 vs PPLx2. Ive said this to people as well but don't you think all that extra recovery would account for something? The rate of gain comparison would suggest this has no impact assuming you were referring to differences in volumes. Im definitely not saying 3 is superior to 6 but I do feel like Id be able to pour a lot more energy into my lifts and maybe get more back from them compared to potentially feeling run down and just trying to get through the sessions at 6 days

 

[niecey85]

@fender75 The main point isn't recovery, but rather how long the post-workout muscle growth process lasts (MPS spike). Research shows that it lasts 48-72 hrs on average, and if you split it into training levels, it shows it lasts 72+ hrs for beginners, 48-72 hrs for intermediates, and ~24 hrs for the advanced. When you do more volume in a single session, you stimulate growth for longer, however, the difference isn't that big, as the fitness/fatigue model and the inverted U shaped curve of diminishing returns show.

So imagine this comparison:

Twin A, advanced lifter, PPL 6x:

• Mon: hits chest. The growing process begins.
• Tue: chest stops growing. The recovery process continues.
• Wed: chest is now just recovering.
• Thu: hits chest. The growing process begins.
• Fri: chest stops growing. The recovery process continues.
• Sat: chest is now just recovering.
• Sun: chest is now just recovering.

Twin B, advanced lifter, PPL 3x:

• Mon: hits chest. The growing process begins.
• Tue: chest stops growing. The recovery process continues.
• Wed: chest is now just recovering.
• Thu: chest now is recovered enough to produce another overload, but is just doing a whole lot of nothing.
• Fri: chest now is recovered enough to produce another overload, but is just doing a whole lot of nothing.
• Sat: chest now is recovered enough to produce another overload, but is just doing a whole lot of nothing.
• Sun: chest now is recovered enough to produce another overload, but is just doing a whole lot of nothing.

 

[nattyz]

@fender75 Time and Time again the guys adding the most LBM/density are the ones using the best lighting and angles.

 

[bravado328]

@fender75 Whenever I try one of those low volume high intensity/HIT style routines I gain strength very well at first but when I stall, boy do I stall... On top of that I dread training because the sessions feel more like a battle with the weights than repeatable training. Perhaps smarter periodisation would help, but I am not sure how to periodise properly if you get hardly any wiggle room in terms of volume (must stay low) or intensity (must stay high). Exercise variation maybe?

Anyone have any experience with those HIT routines? Anyone here have good experiences with them?

 

[marisela]

@bravado328

but when I stall, boy do I stall

Probably because it's hard to get any sort of progressive overload when you're doing low-rep sets (especially if you aren't doing a huge number of sets).

It's a lot harder to go from 4 heavy reps to 5 heavy reps than it is to go from 10 medium reps to 11 medium reps. Unless you're going to failure, it seems really easy to plateau because you get stuck on the same rep counts.

 

[trumpeter2]

@fender75

AJ Morris' recent post

Look at that picture. This is a 3 year transformation. Now look again at the picture. 3 years.