Who actually did a cut with „only“ 1,8 g/kg of protein?

primary0

New member
From one side of the fitness world (Helms, Israetel) you hear that you need >2,3 g/kg of protein in a cut. Then there is the other side which preaches that 1,8 or even 1,6 g/kg is enough (Henselmans, Nippard).

Since there will be much more carbs and fats to eat, I’d like to try 1,8 g/kg out. Will I become a walking stick? 🥺
 
@primary0 There's no evidence that I can find that proves that there's a physiological benefit in protein intakes over 2.3g/kg/day while eating in a deficit. Even Helms himself says this, and suggests that eating that amount of protein probably has more to do with satiety and mood.

You'll be absolutely fine "only" eating 1.8g/kg/day.
 
@primary0 Cutting with "only" 1.8g/kg protein is NOT going to make you a walking stick. Extreme and prolonged calorie deficit without resistance training will make you a walking stick.

I highly suggest that you do try it. In fact, id venture to say that going in with the belief that you are going to GAIN muscle during the cut you will surprise yourself with what you can achieve. Depending on your training status and starting/goal body composition - you may or may not actually gain muscle, but your mindset is going to drive most of your results.

Reasonable calorie deficit, maintaining training intensity and progressing when possible combined, and minimizing life stress through quality sleep, rest, and relaxation are the most important factors here. Muscle loss on a cut is largely overblown anyway. You're not gonna lose muscle until you start dipping into single digit bodyfat%. Even then, anything you lose comes back really quickly when you stop dieting. When getting that lean, higher protein intake WILL be useful to manage your hunger.

Don't take it from me though. Document your cut and see how it goes for you. If you DO end up as a walking stick, it won't be because you ate 1.8g/kg of protein, it'll be because you didn't train and/or you started your cut as a walking stick with greater adiposity.
 
@erman I agree, especially with the point of gaining it back. We know that muscle memory is a real thing, so if you’re not dieting for a single event, but you go back to maintenance or a small surplus after a diet, even if you were to lose some muscle it’s not a big deal. And that being said, I haven’t seen someone losing considerable muscle on a cut except for dieting for a bodybuilding show. It’s just that people underestimate their fat mass and overestimate their muscle mass.
 
@primary0 there is a difference between "this shit is my career so why not highball to be giga optimal" and "this should cover your ass to the point that 9/10 times you will not notice a difference"
 
@primary0 I'm trying a cut now with 1.6g/kg. That said it's not like I have a ton of gains to lose anyways. lmfao. But I don't measure absolutely everything so I tend to err on the side of eating more on most days. Why 1.6g/kg? Because meat and meat by-products are expensive in Canada and carbs like bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, oatmeal, cereal, pancakes and sugars are way cheaper. Maybe the situation is different in the Mid-West USA or wherever meat, dairy and eggs are cheap. It's not just whey protein powder that is expensive. In fact whey protein powder is cheaper than a lot of meat and meat by-products in terms of grams of protein per CAD. A 1kg carton of egg whites (100g protein) at No Frills is $7.99 CAD! Great Value or President's Choice Greek Yogurt is also more expensive than whey protein and the name brand Greek Yogurt never goes on sale for cheaper than the store brand shit.

My 7-day average weight was 155.83 lbs @ 167cm tall in late December/early January. And I'm down to 149.4 lbs 7-day average (150.8 lbs this morning because on Saturday I had a cheat day eating out with friends with lots of carbs and fats. So I'm carrying more water, glycogen, waste than usual. I probably went into a calorie surplus that day too). I haven't noticed any loss of muscle yet. My smart scale says that I'm 16.6% body fat this morning @ 150.8 lbs. Visceral Fat 9 rating. And I was down to 15.9% body fat @ 148.1 lbs on Friday. Visceral Fat 8 Rating. Take the smart scale body fat readings with a grain of salt. But looking in the mirror I definitely don't think I'm less than 15.9% body fat. If anything my biceps look better than ever. I might even be making some gains in a ~500 calorie deficit (I was in a smaller deficit up until two weeks ago). Because I made a lot of mistakes with my first bulk to begin with.

I feel like eating 1g/lb with my physique is like majoring in the minors. The fact that I do as much scale (both kinds) and macro tracking as I do is already majoring in the minors. lmfao. Training effectively is far more important than macros for gains. The moment that I started to get compliments on my physique is not when I upped my protein. Because I didn't. I was eating 1.8g+/kg since Nov 2022 until recently and I looked DYEL for the first 8 months of that easy on a bulk. It's when I swapped out heavy dumbbells for lighter dumbbells and curled the dumbbells properly close to failure instead of using momentum and whatever else to cheat. And lowering the weight on the stack for tricep extensions and doing them properly close to failure. It's the same principle with lateral raises, leg curls, leg extensions, etc. My goal is to just be aesthetic, fit (and I'm already in better shape than the vast majority of men my age at 38) and maybe become a personal trainer one day. Unfortunately personal training is a market that is over-saturated and doesn't make a lot of money.

If your plan is to step on stage, then yeah maybe you need 1g protein/lb or more. Competitive bodybuilding is an expensive hobby to begin with. So the expensive grocery bill may be the least of your worries once you get to that level.

YouTuber Natural Hypertrophy says that he eats about 100g protein per day on his bulk on upper body days (and he's 215-220 lbs). And the dude is jacked. That said he is bulking, not cutting. At the end of the day though, if you are producing micro-tears in your muscles from your training, why wouldn't your body prioritize taking away your body fat over your muscle in a calorie deficit even if your protein isn't high? The human body is adaptive af. Hunter-gatherers didn't always have access to meat. They ate lots of wild plants too. And they needed to preserve muscle mass to fight off predators. I mean hunter-gatherers probably aren't as jacked as their portrayal in movies but still. Unless you're very lean then yeah the body wants to keep those body fat stores.
 
@asperd Look at actual research, you don’t benefit from eating more than 0.7g per pound, trust me when I was like 220 I was eating 140-150 and I was getting jacked, even on a cut I barely lost muscle, don’t listen to fitness influencers and trust science and science based lifters
 
@primary0 I'm 77kg ATM, 4 weeks into a cut with a 500calorie surplus and I eat 160g of protein a day so I'm sort of in the middle.

Had a Dexa scan in December before my slow bulk and got another one booked for 10 weeks time at the end of my cut where I should be about 72kg.

I'll let you know how it goes with some semi accurate readings 😅
 
@primary0 Very interesting question and as much as I'd love to get a definite answer, I'm pretty sure that the best you can get is try it out and see for yourself. Even better if you have a twin brother for comparison same.

I'm in the latter stage of a long cut in which I've kept 2g/kg as my protein intake. I get the point about superior protein satiety and all but I could do with some more carbs.....
 
@primary0 I’m currently 210lbs started my contest diet at 230lbs. My protein has not went above 240g. That’s about 1.14g per lbs right now. Gained strength throughout prep as well. Everyone’s different though. Trial and error to what works best for you and your own body
 
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