Why is 60 minutes classes the standard? 90 minutes classes would be much more efficient

[jobob_0]

@bldssphq Assuming they arrive a few minutes early and add drive times and that's close to 2 hours. Most people dont want to spend that much of their time on the gym. That'd also be way too much volume for them. 2 lifts and 30 minutes of metcons would leave a lot of people just feeling beat up. 99% of CrossFit gym members just want to maintain and improve their health. That can be done in 30-60 minutes.

 

[slp40]

@bldssphq This volume would be insane for most average gym goers just looking for a workout each day. What are we doing on skill days? Are you really going to ask everyone to practice muscle ups, HSPU, etc. for 30+ minutes before doing another 30 minutes of metcons? How would you structure that in a way that won’t cause injuries? If you are interested in creasing your training time, why not just jump into class as a “warm up” and then continuing to train on your own off to the side afterwards? Then you can train what you specifically need/ want to instead of being beholden to 30 minutes of pull ups.

Then there’s the business aspect. If a gym runs 8 classes a day to accommodate different schedules, are we now saying that they are going to still run 8 but need to pay employees for 12 hours a day instead? If no, say goodbye to your coaches, if yes, how are you affording a 50% increase in operating cost that doesn’t draw in any additional revenue?

Overall, the 60 minute GPP class typically offered works exactly as it is meant to if programmed well. Everyone will get a little taste of everything over a week or two and will become familiar with what they would like to spend more time on. This allows your coaches to form deeper relationships with your members when they start having conversations about when and how they can train to improve these things.

 

[bldssphq]

@slp40 Thanks you for those compelling arguments, the best I've read so far!

 

[dawn16]

@bldssphq Sounds good but I assune its more likely ,they run a business, longer classes = less members = less money

 

[bldssphq]

@dawn16 For me this is the biggest argument against it. Economics won't work and I don't see people liking the idea of paying 50-70% more for their membership to offset the loss in revenues.

 

[onidam2]

@bldssphq Most successful gyms run on a minimum amount of classes, the rest of their schedule is usually PT and Open Gym.

The bulk of your crowd is early morning (5:00am/5:30am), morning (8am/9am) and the post work crowd (5pm/6pm). Adding more classes isn't going to put a dent in that.

60 minutes is the sweet spot. It's why it's successful across the board: Barry's Boot Camp, Orange Theory, F45 (45 min is practically 60).

You can have classes in-between but they will be lightly attended.

Also a 90 minute class is overlooking the elephant in the room-- people got sh*t to do and places to go. 5:00am and 5:30am crowds are already pressed for time and need to leave immediately, now you are pushing the end of their class to 5:00-6:30am or 5:30am-7:00am. Most kids have to be dropped off at school from 7:15am-8:30am.

 

[californio]

@onidam2 Exactly. I do morning classes and there’s just dropping kids off, work etc. in the morning.

An hour and half would simply not work.

And in the evenings you have dinner, putting kids to bed, and time with the family. So an hour and half there would also not work.

 

[onidam2]

@dawn16 Not necessarily. More classes doesn't lead to more members.

 

[fisherwomen1515]

@bldssphq Classes would cost approximately 50% more then. I think that most people wouldn’t want a class that long, and definitely wouldn’t want to pay extra.

 

[bldssphq]

@fisherwomen1515 Well, that is actually an excellent point!

Box owner would need to charge more in order to past down decrease in potential revenues.

 

[petersovie]

@bldssphq I would not pay more for my gym, it’s already pricey enough.

 

[onidam2]

@bldssphq 90 minutes is too long for GPP and the crowd that is benefitting from it. The majority of people don't need two strength movements per day and a metcon piece. They'll get wrecked.

You are not in the majority, and that is ok. It's awesome that there is great programming (HWPO) you can do during open gym.

Most people don't need that much volume and frankly will not follow the cycle like intended due to different life variables (stress, family, work, social life, etc.)

 

[bldssphq]

@onidam2 The more I read people the more I tend to agree with you, it isn't only because of economics but perhaps time/workload etc.

Thank you for your input.

 

[chickenlittle]

@bldssphq A few things from my experience managing affiliates. Yeah, 90 minutes would be great for those that want it. Most people don't want to make the 90 min commitment. You're arguments are compelling indeed, but that adds a lot more time to a class. 11 years managing affiliates, the most common reason people quit or leave is because of class not working in their schedule. Again, the vast majority are fine with 60 min.

There's also a business component. Most gyms are small and can't get the same amount of people through in a given time. They simply dont have the space to add more people to a longer class. Lastly, to the point before, the busies time it all gyms is before and after work. There is some logistical issue with having classes that last 90 minutes for people to make it work. 60 minutes is the sweet spot.

I have also seen a trend in 40 minute classes. Basically gyms running classes that offer a CrossFit class that always has a shorter workout. Not going to cast any judgement on whether or not that is a good idea, just that it is happening.

Probably the worst trend, in my opinion, happening at CrossFit gyms is the "no after class" structure. Gyms eliminating work outside of class. Whether its a 40, 60 or 90 minute class, gym's should be allowing people to get that extra work in. My two cents.

 

[bldssphq]

@chickenlittle Thank you for your input. I am investing in a box in Panama and while I will not be managing it I was discussing it with my partner if we should do 1 class of 90 minute a day for more advanced people or just people who wants to progress faster. Some based on HWPO but toned down (HWPO is like 2.5 hours).

No open gym feels preposterous while taking into account what member pay monthly.

 

[chickenlittle]

@bldssphq For what it's worth, my gym tried an "advanced" class that was longer and it didn't work out. It created a huge division within the community and alienated regular members who felt like they weren't "good enough" to attend. I know the point is to have a time for the better people, but at the end of the day, we were sacrificing a lot of the schedule to appease a really small number of members. For reference, our gym is 250+ members, but the "advanced" class was between 5 to 10 people, even though we have roughly 30 that are competitive. The gym's time was just better used class and encouraging competitive athletes to come during open gym.

Affiliates without open gym, sadly, are becoming more and more common.

 

[bldssphq]

@chickenlittle Thank you for sharing your experience, I will definitely be thinking about this going forward. Maybe programming optional extra cardio/accessories (~30mins) would be better off.

 

[christianman02]

@chickenlittle I wonder why open gyms don't attract more powerlifting or oly lifting people to make the economics work better. I personally using open gym once ot twice a week to get some extra work done. The issue with CrossFit and most gyms is the gym is only busy 5-6hrs out of the day and idle (losing money) other times.

 

[chickenlittle]

@christianman02 Oly and powerlifters want to be around a community of oly and power lifters. It is hard for the average CrossFit gym to devote open gym space to an oly or powerlifting group without sacrificing some of the space for their Crossfit classes. Scheduling makes this problem worse. The oly and power lifters have the same schedules, they want space before and after work. There are plenty of gyms offering "day-time" and off hour open gym hours, but those oly and powerlifting folks also have to work. I think the last problem is price. Since they aren't taking class, oly and powerlifting folks usually arent comfortable paying a full price for a CrossFit membership just so they can lift on the side. Some gyms offer a discounted rate, but it always gets messy. Oly, powerlifters, and CrossFitters competing for the same space at 6 am and 6pm. Eventually the gym has to side with the CrossFit class because there are more members paying a higher price point than a few oly or powerlifters. Obviously if the gym is big enough this isnt an issue, but most gyms aint that big.

 

[christianman02]

@chickenlittle Valid points. I'm trying to determine if there's a way to make Crossfit gyms more like "flex workout spaces". Just like "flex workspaces" are the rage for hybrid work right now. I know someone that has a very successful business in converting warehouse space into flex space for everything from basketball, archery, karaoke, corporate parties (this can be real money maker) and now have plans to add gym equipment too.

I do see the downside of crossfit where most the equipment like the rig is not moveable - or even just trying to move 5000lbs of plates and dumbbells everyday to create a flex spaces might make this difficult.