Would you give me your thoughts on my (probably overly complicated) KB program?

K

kennedy

New member
Who I am

I'm 175 lbs. and in my thirties, no known health issues, used to training.

My experience with kettlebells

I've successfully completed Geoff's 12 week program a while ago with two 18 kg kettlebells. I wanted to do the same with 28 kgs, but it was too much, and couldn't return them, so I'm stuck with a pair of 18s and a pair of 28s, lol.

Since about 10 months I've tried (and failed) to do Dan John's 10 000 swing challenge, not because it was too much but mostly because of life circumstances (studying abroad, doing BJJ, having a kid, etc.). I've done about 18 000 swings since then (I count them) with weights varying between 18 to 28 kg.

My goals

Strength and mobility maintenance, I practice BJJ around 3 times a week.

Why is this program so complicated (if it is)?

Because it's the result of around 1 year playing with kettlebells, researching for programs and exercises, and sticking to what I liked. It's what I'm used to. I'm basically looking to know if what I've been doing for the past month or so is grossly misbalanced or not.

The program

Day 1: Hinge/Pull
  • 5 sets of:
    • 2-handed swings: 50/25/15/10. Pull-ups in-between each subset, 5/3/2.
Day 2: Press/weighted carries
Day 3: Squat
My fears / questions

Yes, this is a somewhat complex program, but I know it pretty much by heart and feel okay doing it. I usually end up doing a full circuit of these 3 "days" about once a week. My fear is that it is too hinge-heavy (the squat day has a lot of snatches) and not squat-y enough.

I also have no turkish get-ups whatsoever in that program. I know they're great for mobility but I just generally don't enjoy doing them. Not sure if that's a valid enough reason for avoiding them but there you go.

Would you be kind enough to give me your thoughts on this program, whether or not it's too complex, completely misbalanced, or anything I'm not doing nearly enough, etc.?

Thanks in advance!
 
@kennedy Don't stop enjoying the journey for the sake of reaching the goal.

You point out numerous times that something was 'too much' or 'you've tried (and failed)'

Yet somehow even with all the bullshit that life throws at anyone, you're still consistently working out?

Give. Yourself. Some. Credit. For. Being. On. The. Journey.

And for still working out.
 
@kennedy What was the issue with the 28s? How many reps can you clean and press them for?

Two common suggestions would be:

1) Run the program with one 18kg and one 28kg, swapping each ladder

2) Use both sets of bells, with the heavier bells for sets of 1-2 and lighter bells for sets of 3+ (depending on your strength)

An alternative would be to run another of his programs called The Giant, where you use bells you can press 10 times (your 18s?).

For your program, the main issue I’d see if lack of progression from workout to workout.
 
@gentlegiantami Thanks a lot for the answer, would you mind explaining what you mean by "swapping each ladder"? Do you mean Geoff's 12 week program? My issue with the 28s was that merely cleaning them and keeping them in the rack position was already challenging. I can one arm press them maybe 3 or 4 times, but the last time I tried double pressing them, my form was so dreadful I feared for my back. Haven't tried it since.

I'll give the Giant a look and perhaps a shot. And you are right about the lack of progression, I'll try to fix that.
 
@kennedy No worries

A ladder is a an ascending set (e.g., a set of 2 a set of 3, then a set of 4). I think they are used in that program quite a lot. So I meant use an 18 and 28, but swapping them between your left and right arms throughout the workout. If you can press both the 18 and 28 comfortably (or more comfortably than two 28s) this might work for you.

You could alternatively run the program with one arm and the 28, e.g. doing one armed presses each side rather than simultaneously.
 
@kennedy I like to think about program balance over a longer time horizon than a single week. For example, I might run a month or two where I do more hinging than squatting. That’s ok, because the next phase I can do more squatting than hinging. Throughout the year, it will balance out. Most people simply cannot progress (or even maintain) all things at once. Thinking of things this way can be freeing.

Also, what you’ve described is more of a workout or routine rather than a program, unless I’m missing something. Notice how in the Neupert program you linked, the rep schemes change week to week (so will the # of sets but that is based on auto regulation vs. being explicitly prescribed). This week to week progression is what differentiates a program from a workout routine. You certainly can do the same thing every week and just increase weight or whatever when you think you’re ready, but I have found that I rarely make any progress unless I’m following an explicitly progressive program.
 
@kennedy if it works it is a good plan, if it doesn't then it is a bad plan. ;)

but if you do it and you feel 'good', no akwardness or over exaustion then it is probably good
 
@kennedy You state your goals as

Strength and mobility maintenance, I practice BJJ around 3 times a week.
Click to expand...

Genuine question: do you need further mobility effort beyond 3 BJJ sessions?

If so, I do not believe TGU will provide that mobility boost. You probably need a dedicated session with a broader range of exercises and extra time. Therefore, If you don't like the TGU, don't do them. Because I don't believe TGU will make a difference to your BJJ hips, or add to the floor exercises you probably are already doing.

For me, as a desk jockey, deep squats and TGU are great for mobility. I am rigid AF. For you, I would assume they are not making much of a difference over 3 BJJ sessions per week.

For the other strength goal, is there any specific aspect of strength or conditioning you want to ensure is there? If not, others believe it's an OK program and, more importantly, you are consistently working with it. So keep grinding!
 
@logicweb040 Hey, thanks for the reply and advice! Yes I do think I would benefit from added mobility training because as of now my BJJ game is tailored to my relative rigidity, which isn't ideal. I'm working on my overhead squat mobility with goblet squats and hangs which has done wonders for my overall flexibility.
 
@logicweb040 You absolutely do need additional mobility for BJJ as well as strength training if you not only want to be more flexible during rolling but also prevent injuries. Source is that I do BJJ 3-4x a week. However I agree TGU isn’t the best for BJJ mobility. Hip and ankle mobility will probably help more either BJJ and for strength kettlebell clean and press will be one of the best exercises.
 
@kennedy There is no perfect program, this one looks good. What's the progression? Add weight each week?

If I were to nitpick: I think your pull-up volume is too low and you're missing the noble push-up. Don't feel bad about missing TGUs, they're hugely overrated imo.

edit: I was wrong about the pull-up volume, misread the programming
 
@yuki213 Out of curiosity, why do you feel like an exercise that helps people get stronger standing up from a laying position is overrated?

I feel like anything that uses the core and requires serious balance to get off the floor is great for graceful aging. It’s awesome to be able to swing around 32, 40kg KBs and then deadlift 400lbs for fun now, but when I’m 92 I’d be really grateful to be able to get myself off the ground if I’ve fallen over.

There’s only a few things that I can see being alternated with the same benefits.

Not liking mobility work isn’t an excuse to call it overrated IMO
 
@shkana Saying they are overrated is not the same as saying they have no value. Some people in the kb community think that you have to do them. I don't think there would be a major fitness component lost by excluding them from an otherwise well balanced routine.
 
@shkana If TGUs are the secret to graceful aging I'll eat my shoe. It's never about one movement, it's about the whole. I'd bet a hefty sum graceful aging can be obtained by squatting, hinging, pushing, pulling, running, walking, swimming, etc. TGUs would not hurt in this goal, and if folks love doing em, go for it. But they are not magic.

TGUs are not really how humans stand up from the floor. To test this, go lay on your back and stand up from the floor. Did you need to balance a weight overhead while you did it? Now try getting up from the prone position - it's going to look an awful lot like a slow burpee.

But hey, I'm just an internet dingus, I could be wrong. Are there studies that show an unusually high benefit to doing TGUs versus other exercises?

I'm definitely in favor of mobility work.
 
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