Are those Hammer Strength chest machines worthwhile for hypertrophy?

[mommajulesberry]

@knowledgeisnotignorant - the teamfullrom folks sometimes use yoga mats/pads/blocks (you could use fatgrips even) to get more range of motion at the bottom

- yes a lot of machines are shortened bias but i imagine you can just blast lengthened partials past your normal proximity to failure afterward

 

[judykittel]

@mommajulesberry There is some way to make the hammer strength incline more mid-lengthened bias that is basically kept a secret amongst bb-ing coaches that I’ve been trying to figure out. But regardless lengthened partials after failing on full rom in the machine is my favorite chest movement

 

[thorhallur]

@knowledgeisnotignorant My training was stifled for years when I first started and drank the Reddit Starting Strength kool-aid. I didn't touch machines for years as they were below the elite barbell only ways I had read about. I now use machines as well as free-weights and love them, you can get SO much more training volume in in a short time. I've learned to disregard almost in total everything I read on this website, on any topic.

 

[gennadi]

@thorhallur "Man, I really need some accessory lifts to strengthen my grip. Recently grip has become a major limiting factor in my deadlifts because I can't hold on to the bar for longer than 20 seconds. Any good forearm isolation movements I should know about?"

"If you wanna get better at deadlifting, deadlift more."

"Okay I'd love to but my grip is really weak, it's literally the only thing holding me back. How about forearm curls, those are good for only hitting that one tiny muscle, right?"

"Deadlift. More."

"That is literally my goal."

"Trying to improve your deadlift with isolation exercises aimed at strengthening your weak points is like learning to play the guitar by going to concerts."

 

[signsofthetimes]

@gennadi This is late af but try adding a few laps of farmer's carry, that shit is killer for grip strength

 

[chrisjohnstonone]

@gennadi Hella late but man that starting strength dogma was something. My squats finally started moving far beyond what I got out SS-type work once I worked on my mobility

Turns out “squat more” was not the answer for me

Also I just use chalk first, then straps. Use your warmup to your top set with no straps. As your deadlift increases, so will your warm up weights, and your grip will gradually increase as your warm up weights do

 

[supescritter]

@thorhallur About 60% of what you read on this specific subreddit is good advice though. That number approaches 100% if you can identify the handful of commenters that really do know their shit and are active.

The SS koolaid is borderline cult like though and all that shit did is get me injured back in the day (although I did it before Reddit—I was dumb enough to try it on my own without needing this site to trick me into it)

 

[xamadeusx]

@thorhallur yeah man, I can't believe how many of us fell for it. 2008-2011 was peak....which sucks because that's when I was an impressionable 18-year-old wanting to grow but stuck in the cults of Starting Strength, Starr's 5x5, Wendell 531, or Stronglifts...stuff like that.

"Barbells are for men and muscles. Machines and isolations are for old people and girls. Machines won't make you strong, only barbells. Get strong, and you will get be jacked."

I'm glad that now, after taking well over a decade off from YouTube fitness and reddit, there seems ti be more common sense based channels. Stuff like Alex Leonidas, RP, and many others just didn't exist in 2007. At least, it was hard to find and most of us got stuck in whatever information we gleaned form bodybuilding.com or YouTube. Elliot Hulse was king back then.

 

[tolch]

@knowledgeisnotignorant These machines can be useful for all those reasons you mentioned. However, they fall short because the force curve biases the lockout.

Ideally, you want tension on the target muscle to increase as you move into a lengthened position. These machines do the exact opposite.

Smith machine may be a better alternative because it has a balanced force curve. You also don’t need to go to failure on all sets, so doing something like dumbbell incline with a deep stretch to just shy of failure could work as well.

 

[justincann]

@tolch I'd say it depends on the machine. Some hammer strength ones or other brands of "plate loaded machines" do seem to bias the lockout. But quite a few its even enough to not make a difference and a few bias the stretch too.

Best are the ones with multiple locations to put plates where weight in different locations can alter the strength curve.

 

[tolch]

@justincann I was commenting on the machines that OP linked, but yes it depends. However, I’ve never seen a hammer strength machine that doesn’t bias full contraction (pressing or pulling). Prime Fitness makes one with multiple locations: https://www.primefitnessusa.com/products/plate-loaded-incline-press.

 

[tolch]

@justincann Ok, yeah it looks like the two pulldown machines they have can bias the stretch, or at least have a balanced curve, if you drop the seat height: https://www.lifefitness.com/service...ct&query=***&pageNum=0&channelId=34138#t-2900

The rest all get harder the closer you get to lockout.

I got the high row at my gym and it has almost no tension at the top. They do last forever, though. My gyms hammer strength machines are legit from the 1990s.

 

[learningasigo]

@tolch What do you think of this one? Good or bad, bias stretch?

https://www.lifefitness.com/en-us/c.../plate-loaded/plate-loaded-iso-lateral-rowing

My gym got it but I never really used it.

 

[tolch]

@learningasigo That one biases the peak contraction as well.

 

[micah111]

@learningasigo You can step back from the machine and perform these unilaterally. Makes a great lengthened bias lat focused row.

 

[learningasigo]

@micah111 Good tip , thanks

 

[maxmillianmichieli]

@knowledgeisnotignorant There's a lot of people that are very shoulder dominant and struggle to make their pecs participate in the majority of the pushing motion as they're supposed to. Convergent machines are better than barbells or even dumbbells for that people.

 

[jenallison]

@maxmillianmichieli Please continue to expound on this

 

[maxmillianmichieli]

@jenallison Some people simply lack leverage in their bodies to use the pecs as main pushing muscle in horizontal motions so tension goes more than desired to front delts and triceps. Usually, when these kind of individuals end up being bodybuilders, one can see how much overdeveloped their shoulders are in comparison tontheir chests. Some of them is because of not bulging enough ribcages, some fail to retract scapula in an efficient way.... it's usually a combination of factors. For example, Spanish bodybuilder Roberto Castellano.

Chest pressing machines (AND cable presses) help with this issue due to specific adaptation to chest lines of force. With free weights, the body tries to find the easiest and most efficient way to move the bar/dumbbell from point A to point B, but with these tools you can accomodate your body to apply force in a path where chest is the main mover.

I would recommend first developing enough strength for reps in free weight movements. Up to 100-120kg bench/incline press should be enough, then if not engaging chest is still a problem, switch to machine and/or cable presses.

For me, cable presses are king. But they have issues. Too long to set up, occupying the two cables at the same time. Hard to initiate the movement if you're alone once you use significant weight and most pulleys are very limited in weight since they are usually adjustable double pulleys.