Building muscle on a deficit?

[markdavidverghese]

33M vegan 2+ years. 6ft 185 - trying to get back to the better body composition I had as an athlete in college.

Maybe it’s just in my mind but when I was lifting 5-8 years ago I felt like my muscle mass was firmer and harder and more easily attained. Is this purely a calorie thing? Am I missing some amino acids or something?

Macros are currently around 25/35/40 P/C/F - I take a multivitamin and I do 2 vegan protein shakes a day morning and night. Currently hitting around 120g protein per day on average. Meals are typical soy products, beans / lentils, brown rice, lots of vegetables, oats, some fruit, some pasta occasionally.

Now I am likely at a caloric deficit on average because I’ve lost about 15 lbs the past 4-5 months. I’m not consciously cutting or bulking, I am just working to find a consistent routine of exercise and diet that is sustainable and keeps me strong and lean. Naturally focusing on weight loss but have been trying to get enough protein to still build muscle while I do it, which I definitely have as I’m lifting stronger these days.

I workout 4-5 days per week, 3 lifting sessions and 2 hiit cardio sessions plus usually some outdoor activities like hiking/skiing/biking.

I have this feeling like after for example a vacation where I’m not actively lifting for a week, my muscles feel like they’re depleting faster than they would in the past.

Any comments or tips are appreciated, thank you

 

[jacobleea]

@markdavidverghese M39, 9 years vegan, 5'8", 180 Lb.

Increase your protein to 1g/Lb and switch up your macros. 40/35/25, C/P/F. After that.... consistency!

 

[songonthewind]

@markdavidverghese I would increase protein up to bodyweight at a minimum. Add creatine at 5g per day.

Focus on progressive overload on your lifts. Moderate cardio and carbs where necessary to keep fat loss in check.

If you need more help or want a custom meal plan email me thebodybuildingvegan@gmail.com

 

[markdavidverghese]

@songonthewind Thank you, I will work on more protein, I was taking creative (naked brand) for a month or so and didn’t really notice a difference, but I’ll go back to it.

Question - is creatine something you need to take forever? Or can I eventually maintain without it?

 

[songonthewind]

@markdavidverghese The benefits will benefit you forever. Check my post history. I’ve used creatine 5g a day for 12-15 years now.

 

[markdavidverghese]

@songonthewind Thanks yeah I understand it’s safe and has long term viability but I was wondering if you stop using it, can you still maintain the gains you got while using it?

 

[songonthewind]

@markdavidverghese I just don’t understand why you’d stop using it personally

 

[jamesalbright]

@markdavidverghese You can't really build muscle on a deficit, your body is more or less using the little energy it has to repair the muscle from your workout but not enough to build new muscle.

If you want to build muscle eat at a slight surplus 200-500 calories.

 

[clevelandfinest216]

@jamesalbright Isn’t building muscle on a deficit the definition of a body recomp?

 

[pamcaid]

@clevelandfinest216 I think most people eat at maintenance when doing a "recomp." They stay the same weight and lose fat and build muscle simultaneously over that time.

 

[pamcaid]

@markdavidverghese It is possible for beginner lifters or those who have excess body fat (overweight/obese) to build muscle during a calorie deficit. It's unlikely that those with longer training history or who are already fairly lean will gain muscle in a deficit.

You can certainly gain strength in a deficit, even without gaining muscle. Strength could be gained from central nervous system improvements (learning to perform the movements better, your body learning to better recruit your existing muscle to do the movement).

 

[cornesmit]

@markdavidverghese It’s possible but more difficult. The big things to focus on are:

Sufficient protein: 1.6g per kg of bodyweight (0.73g per lbs)

Deficit: keep your deficit small. No more than 500 kcal daily deficit.

Sleep: the more the better usually. 7-9 hours of high quality, consistent sleep. But your needs may be more or less depending on how stressful your life is. If you find yourself drinking more caffeine than usual to fight off fatigue, you need more sleep, not caffeine.

Stress management: do what you can to keep your stress as low as possible. The other side of that is to enjoy your life as much as possible.

Training: continue your training like you would in your bulk. At some point your likely to accumulate fatigue to the point that you have to decrease something in your training. Volume, intensity, less compounds, etc.

 

[cinno]

@markdavidverghese Yeah, if I were you I'd increase calories a bit, increase protein a bit, increase carbs a bit and reduce fat a bit and see how you feel. You really want to be closer to maintenance calories while slow recomping vs being in a deficit. The reason I say reduce fat and up carbs is so you can be more certain your muscles are really getting a full store of glycogen and you do a bit of endurance training and that should help with your performance a bit. Definitely add creatine to the mix, you may hold onto some extra water but the performance boost will be well worth it.