Does this 3-day 5/3/1 BBB w/ accessories make sense?

[gem4him]

I've searched around and read the book... so I'm hoping to find some constructive criticism on what I'm thinking of going with... I'm planning on switching (currently doing GreySkull) to 5/3/1 BBB w/ accessories, 3 days a week (MWF).

I know the book calls for a 3-day program by stretching out all 4 main lifts, but I've also read online that people also made gains with combining squat and OHP on the same, which is what I would like to go with.

Day One: Squat / OHP

• Squat 5/3/1
• OHP 5/3/1
• Squat 5x10
• OHP 5x10

Day Two - Bench

• Bench 5/3/1
• Bench 5x10
• Incline barbell bench 3x8-10
• Weighted Dips 3x8-10

Day Three - Deadlift

• Deadlift 5/3/1
• Deadlift 5x10
• Seated cable rows 3x8-10
• Lat pulldowns 3x8-10

As info, current stats are:

• Age: 38
• Gender: Male
• Height: 5' 7"
• Weight: 183 lbs

Current lifts, in lbs, on 3x5 sets:

• Squat 205
• OHP 110
• Bench 165
  
• Deadlift 230

Thanks!!!

 

[reformedhighlander]

@gem4him I did something similar to this and found that the deadlift 5x10 was brutal and I had to remove it from the program. Doing the 5x10 squat and deadlift in the same week just fried my lower back but maybe it will be ok for you.

In my opinion and experience with clients your age and older, I swap out high rep deadlifts for a movement for the posterior chain that is less taxing on the lower back like kettlebell swings or back extensions or glute/ham/raises.

One other note is the Bench day has a lot of pressing movements and reps. I would worry about the shoulder health with that amount of volume. If you're really pushing the main lift 531 and the 5x10 you shouldn't have much left in the tank to do incline bench AND dips.
Hope this helps.

 

[slingmama]

@reformedhighlander When I first started lifting seriously (read: did more than biceps curls and lat pulldowns) I was able to blast out a 5x10 deadlift after the 5/3/1 and do it in the same week as the squat stuff. As the weight went up, however, I had to cut it out as well.

I'm 37 now, so almost the same age as OP, and I can't even fathom doing 5x5 deadlifts in the 300-400s and following that up with 5x10. Jesus fucking christ no.

 

[reformedhighlander]

@slingmama Exactly. I've been lifting 18 years. I have to be mindful of my volume to keep making progress and not feel like I got run over by a truck for a week. lol

 

[dawn16]

@reformedhighlander I was training heavy and speed conventional deadlift when I was 25, no problem.

Now 40, Sumo deadlift is significantly easier to recover from. Still builds strength. I find switching to Sumo deadlift makes it much easier to complete the 5x10.

 

[reformedhighlander]

@dawn16 Nice! As we get a bit older in training years we have to adjust and adapt. I find for most guys over 40 the 5x10 is too much to recover from at first so we build up to it. Usually start with 2x10 or something similar and progressively add on over the weeks.

 

[timhieuvetrello]

@gem4him I'm not a fan of this plan.

First, even if you can only make it 3 days per week, I'd rather you do a conventional 4-day 5/3/1 by going M-W-F-M. That's not a bad way to go for those of us of a certain age.

Second, 5x10 deads are, as others have suggested, questionable. I'd rather you just do 3x5 or 5x3 at your FSL weight, or something similar.

Third, if you insist on sticking with a 3-day routine:

Day 1: Press 5/3/1 & Squat 5/3/1 (press first), plus press volume and squat volume. And nothing else.

Day 2: Bench 5/3/1, bench volume, and a pull (like chins or barbell rows). Plus perhaps one other light assistance movement.

Day 3: Deadlift 5/3/1, deadlift volume, and dips (a push). Plus perhaps one other light assistance movement.

I am also going to send you here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fitness30plus/comments/25c5kj/531_for_oldsters_part_6_assistance

If you wanted to do a 4-day 5/3/1, even spread out over 10 days, I'd suggest you look at the "vanilla" routine I describe there.

 

[igvh91]

@timhieuvetrello I've enjoyed reading your posts, very helpful.

I'm 41, only 1 month in to 5/3/1 with BBB, 3 day. I've never trained any sort of volume on deadlift or squat, and am finding the BBB sets brutal. DOMS after the squats is particularly bad - 1.5 days after I'm very sore, then have another 3 day recovery.

Do you think this is just that I haven't adapted to volume yet? Or I'm just not strong enough?

FWIW here's my schedule:

Day 1:
* Bench 5/3/1
* Bench 5 x 10
* Pull ups 5 x 5

Day 2:
* Squat 5/3/1
* Squat 5 x 10
* Pull ups 5 x 5
* Dips 5 x 10

Day 3:
* OHP 5/3/1
* OHP 5 x 10
* Pull ups 5 x 5

Day 1 following week:
* Deadlift 5/3/1
* Deadlift 5 x 10
* Dips 5 x 10

 

[timhieuvetrello]

@igvh91

Do you think this is just that I haven't adapted to volume yet? Or I'm just not strong enough?

You just haven't adapted yet. The good thing is, with your lifting schedule, you have a lot of time to recover.

But perhaps you could also use some additional mobility and flexibility work. I'm the same age as you, and it's certainly important to me. I could not lift what I lift without it.

 

[igvh91]

@timhieuvetrello That's exactly what I need. I'm doing some basic stretches each morning, including a door jam hamstring stretch, which is definitely my weakest point. That Lunge Hip Flexor Stretch is being added to my morning routine.

 

[gem4him]

@timhieuvetrello I am just revisiting this post and I am really considering switching to 5/3/1 BBB and was hoping to get some input. First of all, thank you for the amazing posts on this subject. Very informative and very appreciated.

As you recommended, I would like to move forward with the 3-day program doing the conventional 4-day 5/3/1, M-W-F-M. My lifts are still low, so for now I would like to try the 5x10 sets under the BBB program. So I guess my questions is regarding the accessories... I am interested in doing weighted dips, seated cable rows and lat pulldowns (unfortunately I do not have access to a pull up bar or I would go with those).

Would you mind providing your opinion on which days I should add these accessories into the 4-day opinion? This would be greatly appreciated... thanks!!!

 

[timhieuvetrello]

@gem4him If my main lift is a push, my assistance will be mainly pulls.

So for you:

Rows as assistance on bench day, and pull downs as assistance on press day. These are both antagonistic movement in the same plane as the main lift.

I would then add dips on the other two days, but follow the dips with a lightweight antagonistic movement like high rep face pulls. (Everyone should be doing face pulls anyway.)

 

[gem4him]

@timhieuvetrello This is great, thank you!!!

 

[dawn16]

@gem4him Yeah, it will work. But I wouldn't do it. I hate doing too many intense sets in workout. I found that the BBB done 3 days a week with 5x10 deads done on 531 squat day, 5x10 bench done on 531 press day , and so on works really well for recovery. Actually I have a toddler and a newborn so I do the bbb 2 day a week routine and it works just fine.

I don't do 5x10 deadlifts because that would suck, so I do Hex bar deadlifts instead. Maybe next month I'll do rack pulls. I often do front squats instead of regular squats for 5x10.

 

[praisehim316]

@gem4him I've done something similar to this and found it was very very challenging and ground me downalthough i did love the 5 X10 sets.

For me I found running triumvirate a lot more sustainable and adding in chins, dips and band pull aparts has had a great carry over for OHP and bench.

Perhaps you could also swap 5x10@50% for 5x5@70 which I've also found easier on my body.

 

[theweirdn8]

@gem4him I'd arrange it more like this:

day 1: 5/3/1 deadlift, 5/3/1 OHP, BBB OHP, lat pulls/chins

day 2: 5/3/1 Squats, incline, dips

day 3: 5/3/1 bench, BBB Bench, rows

The BBB sets are really to add muscle mass via hypertrophy.

In my experience, upper body lifts respond well to volume and BBB really hammers it. Doing BBB sets for squats and deads just left me trashed, and if you're already squatting and deadlifting you're already having trouble fitting jeans. Do you really want to add more bulk to your hips and legs? If you still feel like you'd like more volume, maybe add a couple sets of ten for squats and deadlift to day 3. Day 1 is gonna be a killer, but each day gets easier through the week, which might help mentally.

 

[pianocovers]

@gem4him In my opinion, (because of how I respond to training in general), the accessory work here would not be NEARLY enough volume for me. But I'm often trying to get bigger and grow and not just strength. Specifically it seems you have much much less volume on your pulling motions. And honestly, this is just me from when I was doing 5/3/1 I had a barbell row day as well. I simply did 5 or 6 sets of 5 reps though.

Not sure if that will help.

 

[warriorinchrist25]

@gem4him I always thought you were supposed to do accessories that were different from the main lifts? Not more of the same. That much volume (5x10s) after doing your 5/3/1 lift is probably unsustainable. Especially when doubling main lifts in a session. That's a lot to recover from.

 

[kimmiejo]

@gem4him IMO a 3 day workout shouldn't be a split. 4-7 day workouts, yeah you need to split for recovery. 3 or fewer, I do whole body.

 

[skylove]

@gem4him I would probably move either rows or pulldowns to you benching day and swap either incline or dips to the deadlift day or just drop it all together, but that really depends on you. Some people feel like they perform better by blowing out a movement on one day but I like to spread it out during the week if I can.