Getting weaker on squats

[bjpascoal]

Hi all, I resumed weight training close to 9 months ago,and am now soon approaching to a year. A year before that I weight trained at the gym on and off as well, and have primarily focussed on the big three lifts.

However it seems my squats just seem to get weaker each time I have a go at it. I consistently perform squat training at least once a week, and only recently managed to find my groove back (as in being comfortable enough to go ATG) but I can't seem to go beyond 100kg comfortably (I do 5-3-1 sets to work to my max). My knees creak alot and alot of.times they feel sore and want to give way. I have tried half squat to focus on the quads but couple of times and it was worse as my knees felt.like they were about to pop due to the sheer stress places on the knees in the half squat position. Also after each "tough" suqat session, while my quads felt sore upon completing the set, I don't get the sore that I used to get when I was younger, as in no aches but my knees definitely feel abit sore.

I've started kettlebell lunges and they don't stress my knees the way squat does and am able to go deep and work the quads more. Also I recently did a leg press with a wide v stance to try to remove knee impingements and could comfortably go up to 4 20kg plates on each side.

I'm not sure if I should still go at it with squats or just do away with it entirely. I had a few near misses with squats that left me a few scares. But being the stubborn me, I'm just wondering where am I lacking in my squats that I can't push to even 120kg comfortably. I've seen so many videos skinny guys comfortably hitting twice their bodyweight on the bar, and I can't seem to hit 1.6 times my bodyweight.

Anyone feels the same?

Edit: I'm 40 years old trying to get stronger. I have small bones and wonder if bone density has anything to do with strength.

 

[jely]

@bjpascoal Follow a program.

 

[anniereborn]

@bjpascoal You need to try following an actual program.

 

[mekon]

@anniereborn 5/3/1 is a program

 

[anniereborn]

@mekon And the OP has admitted they aren’t following it correctly. Saying “I do 5/3/1 sets to work to my squat max” is not the same as actually following any of the 5/3/1 templates.

 

[mekon]

@anniereborn Well then he should be forced to listen to Wendler read his books on tape.

 

[unbridledwild]

@bjpascoal Proper squat form can vary widely depending on your anatomy. I think you should drop the weight and go for volume with a slow eccentric into a pause at the bottom. Either pick a different squat variation or just try widening or narrowing your stance until you feel comfortable.

If you want to emphasize bolstering your knees, do reverse sled pulls. Even just walking backwards helps. Bulgarian split squats hit the knee over toe thing pretty hard. There’s also a reverse nordic progression you could try.

 

[bjpascoal]

@unbridledwild I've done gvt before with 10 sets of 10 reps at 40kg. While it felt comfortable and taxes my quads, but it never got me stronger. I tried testing my max after a few gvt sessions and seemed to have regressed.

I have experimented arm placements, grip, core engagements but still not experiencing any progress. I'm wondering if it's worth continuing squatting just to prove I can do it.

 

[unbridledwild]

@bjpascoal You tried gvt a couple sessions at too light a weight and determined that all volume training is trash because the max you stopped directly pushing went down? You’re literally in here asking about knee pain while hitting 9 total reps a workout at a weight you shouldn’t be throwing around.

 

[bjpascoal]

@unbridledwild I don't see the issue with going at a lighter weight that allowed me to consistently push through for 10 sets of 10 reps and not compromise my knee further, while ensuring form remains on point most of the time. If my quads are properly worked, that would have transferred over to some form of muscles built to attempt heavier weights.

 

[unbridledwild]

@bjpascoal Yes, it’s clear you don’t see the issue. I’m going to echo the above commenters: follow a program.

 

[totalfloor]

@bjpascoal 10 sets of 10 reps, did you actually do that? That has got to be a whole lot of junk volume. I imagine you could be doing enough muscle damage that it would actually result in strength regression.

I personally do a warm up set and then 3 working sets of 12 reps (which might even be excessive), and see slow but steady strength progress over the months.

Slow eccentric, good form, AtG and a pause at the bottom, to ensure I get the most possible stimulus at the lowest possible injury risk per rep. Even at 65kg it leaves me completely nackered with quads being sore for a few days.

At 43 I'm old enough and scared enough of injuries enough that I'll probably never do a 1 rep max again.

 

[pinoytvshows]

@bjpascoal Aside from what others have said you should never base your expectations on what other people are doing. Just because someone is skinny doesn’t mean they haven’t been training a long time. You are only racing against yourself.

 

[lanman87]

@bjpascoal The reason people say follow a program is because in a true 531 program, the 1 set would be right below your 5 rep max, not your 1 rep max.

Also if you only so the three sets that just may not be enough, in particular as you get older which is why almost everyone on 531 does at least 5 more sets .

 

[predrag]

@bjpascoal

I do 5-3-1 sets to work to my max

So are you just doing one work set?

 

[bjpascoal]

@predrag It's more like a modification. Warm up to 70% of my max with 5 reps for a few sets, then as I approach heavier weights, I'll drop to 3 reps a set until 1 rep per set to attempt my max.

 

[predrag]

@bjpascoal I prefer a reverse pyramid/wave strategy. Depending on the week, I'll ramp to 5s, and hit a few sets. Then back down to 12s and hit a few grueling sets. Whatever the lowest set of 5s was, I set that as my "minimum" threshold.

So, if I hit "at least" 185 lbs, the last time, I better hit "at least" 190 lbs across three sets the next time.

Next week is triples. Four sets at "at least" x weight, then raise the threshold. Followed by 3x9.

Next week singles. Five sets at "at least" y weight, then raise the threshold the next cycle. Followed by 2x6 @ the weight I used for 3x5.

3x5/4x12; 4x3/3x9; 5x1/2x6 - some numbers I threw against a wall that happens to be working.

I hate high rep squats, and if I programmed them by themselves, I'd sandbag, haha. But gosh, do they help.

 

[hugosilva]

@bjpascoal You ought to post a vid of your form so someone can see what exactly is stressing the knee so much.

I have small bones and this makes no difference whatsoever in my opinion. I’m older, closer to 50, and what I do find is that I can over-stress the meniscus in the knee joint outside of the gym… which affects my lifts inside the gym. Inside the gym, I’ve never injured myself squatting. But I would say that I do not recommend deliberately stopping the squad at parallel as that does put a lot of stress on the knee. Either stop slightly above or below parallel. I like to go below and sometimes completely rock bottom as that feels best for my knees (high bar squat by the way).

I’m also a long leg vs torso lifter with small legs (so, poor leverages for squats) so I’d say you should be able to squat 120kg+ with no knee pain because that’s my own experience.

 

[sharkbait13]

@bjpascoal Weight training increases bone density. I'm guessing that isn't an issue.

Others said "follow a program", great, but are missing why.

Two things, periodization and maybe deloading. I think most intermediate/advanced programs will include an implicit deload week. You might consider looking up a video about it. Dr Mike (Renaissance Periodization) has a video on it on YouTube which is good. That said, I've never seen deloading recommended for beginners (which, disclaimer, I am), but I've also never seen a deloading recommendation which incorporates the consideration of natural lifters and age.

You additionally should get a form check.

Good luck

 

[dekaewaii]

@bjpascoal Hmm, sound like you're strong and not inexperienced, but just a little misguided. Here's some role-playing. I see other guys doing bicep curls with the 70 pound dumbbells, but I can't even do 3x10 with the 20-pound ones. So I've been doing heavy triples on the top half of the rep with the 50s but my elbow hurts now. I've tried different elbow placements but these half-reps always hurt. Why can those guys lift the 70s and I can't? Hopefully the answer to your question is a little more obvious now. It sucks that I can only full curl the 15s for 3x10, but that's how strong I am right now. Cheating the range of motion doesn't make my biceps bigger or stronger. Doing a heavy topset isn't enough to grow. If I follow a program, get bigger biceps, and then train that muscle for low reps, I'll be able to lift more. So...

Those 16 year old kids have been lifting every day for 8 years. New generation has had decent programming and access to information from the start. Whereas we had to rely on standing in the Walgreens magazine aisle reading the monthly Men's Health. They're 16 but they've been lifting hard for a decade. Theyre more experienced. Half squats reduce quad stimulus, not increase it. You can use more weight but it's work being done at the hips. Try to stand up and move your hips back 3 inches without moving your knees forward, and then stand up again and try to move your knees forward 3 inches without moving your hips back. For quads, you want maximum knee bend and forward knee teavel. For squats though, you want a balance. Find the right stance for your hip structure and practice. There is a weight that's light enough that your knees don't hurt and you can get your hamstrings to rest on your calves. Start there and build up. Working up to a heavy top set is a great peaking method, but to grow, you need to build muscle and then train that new muscle to be strong. It sounds like you've tried a lot of things but haven't identified a specific long-term target (i.e. I want to squat 240kg in two years), broken down that target into multiple sequential goals, and then committed to that first goal.

So here. I challenge you to, over the next 6 months, 1) add 2 inches to your quads, and 2) increase the amount of weight you can both do leg curls with and do leg extensions with for 3x10 by 50%. So right now if you can do leg extensions for 3x10 with 120 pounds, in 6 months, do em with 180. If you want to lift more weight, get bigger fuckin quads. Run through something like Inverted Juggernaut 2.0 twice. Inverted Juggernaut is lots of submax touches but still super tough because those submax touches burn out your weak point leading up to a weekly AMRAP. When you identify a weak point, pick accessories that improve it. It's 4 months long, which will stop you from doing random topset BS, and is hypertrophy focused without being silly unstructured work like GVT. After two rounds of that, youll have muscle that needs to be made stronger, so do GZCLP for two month to ramp up your 5x3 and get accustomed to heavier weight. Then you need to peak and drop fatigue so do one month where you do 3x3, then 3x2 5% heavier the next week, then 3-5 heavy singles the next week, then take a week off, and bam. Test your max.

So, you're asking us "why am I not stronger" and the answer seems to be that you have to swallow your ego and actually try to get stronger, rather than just desire to get stronger.