How do you reconcile the "we don't need that much protein!" attitude of veg*n communities with the "ALL THE PROTEIN!" attitude of fitness communities?

christopherv

New member
Hi all,

I did a search and while there's lots here on protein, I didn't see this question come up. I hope it's okay to ask here, because I feel like it's the only sub I've found that merges the veg*n communities and fitness communities and won't be biased in one direction or the other.

I'm currently in transition to vegetarianism (with the goal of maybe, eventually, going vegan). I spent a lot of time in the r/xxfitness subreddit and its Facebook group, so I am well acquainted with the science-backed protein needs of lifters, bodybuilders, and the like, and the importance of protein in building and maintaining muscle. I dabbled in lifting for a while but I'm more sedentary at the moment thanks to shin splints from running and life being hectic.

However, since I've started cutting meat out of my diet and frequenting subs like r/vegetarian, I'm seeing the total opposite arguments: that we don't need as much protein as everyone thinks and that we get too much. Maybe that's true for the average sedentary person, but I'll be honest and say that most of the time, it seems common for some veg*ns to use this statement as a tool to further their "agenda" (for lack of a better term), despite the science showing otherwise for people who are active.

Anyway, what I'm really asking is: how do you reconcile these two attitudes, being both vegan and into fitness? How do you decide how much protein is right for you? I'm wondering what the right amount for me to take in is, as a 5'3 woman sitting at ~135lbs who wants to lose a little weight (maybe 10 lbs or so). I'm not a lifter at the moment, and I mostly just do a bit of cardio and dumbbell/bodyweight stuff to stay healthy until I recover from shin splints and can start running again. I may get back to lifting heavier again someday too, but one thing at a time.

I'm currently eating 70g protein--30g less than I was eating when I was lifting relatively heavy. It's a number that I'm sure most veg*n communities will tell me is too high, but that most fitness communities will tell me is too low.

I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on the matter while I figure out my diet. Thanks to a sedentary office job, I can only really eat around 1800 calories at MOST when I want to cut, so it's hard to get much more protein within that restriction without lots of protein shakes, bars, or tofu (all of which I do like, but I prefer to not rely on too heavily).

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this and/or answer! :)
 
@christopherv I reconciled it by doing the research. The fitness communities will spew 1.2-1.8g/lb which makes literally no sense. If you think about it, no meta analysis ever would make a conclusion with two different measurement systems. From everything I’ve looked at and al the meta analyses I’ve decided 1.2-1.8g/kg of body weight is right for athletes, less for regular people. I’m content with that and I feel great and I look pretty great too.
 
@christopherv I guess I reconcile it by knowing that if I eat whole plant-based foods until I'm full (eating enough calories), it's impossible to be lacking in protein. Source, with the knowledge that it's written by a well-known plant-based advocate. It's going to be different for everyone, but I trust my body to tell me when I need more food. When I'm more active, I feel hungrier. I sometimes crave different foods. I try to listen to that. Not sure if it will help you, but it might!

I also take the longer-view approach. We didn't always as humans know about things like calories, protein and carb counts, and I tend to think that we over-analyze and grant extra importance to these numbers. People can be healthy, even ignorant of how much protein they consume. And additionally, there have been lots of fit people over the centuries before we had ways of quantifying or analyzing the nutritional data of food. So, I guess I throw my hands up in the air, look at all the times that the experts have been proven wrong in history, and wonder when/if the conventional wisdom today about protein, carbs, fat, etc., will be turned on its head.
 
@listenhere To be fair there is a difference between the amount of protein needed to be healthy and the amount of protein needed to maximize muscle mass/retain maximum muscle while cutting. Knowing this, I do make an effort to eat more protein rich foods because I strength train. I'm not saying everyone needs to take this approach, or that this approach is necessary to be "healthy" or "fit." Everyone has different definitions of those terms and that's totally cool! At the same time, recent studies tend to set the upper limit of protein (in terms of the point that muscle gains stop improving) much lower than the numbers that typically float around fitness communities.

Personally, /@christopherv, I try to approach things with balance because that's what makes me happiest. I want to be healthy and fit and strong, but I'm not at all trying to be the strongest human possible (which I have no doubt people can do while vegan--just not my goal). So I eat whole foods but don't worry too much about protein. I'm currently eating about 1700 cals a day and hit around 70-85g protein--sometimes more, sometimes less. I've been taking this approach for years and I'm really happy with my athletic/aesthetic progress and I love the food I eat! I also think I calculated my "maximal" amount of protein (from some new study I read in NY times I think) at 82g. So I'm not that far off from one of the current estimates! For reference I'm a woman (and xxfitness frequenter!), 5'6, 130lbs, and currently cutting which is why I'm only eating 1700 calories.
 
@dawn16 This is so helpful, thank you! I tend to go more for moderation as well. It's good to hear from someone in the xxfitness community who's eating under 100g of protein per day. ;)
 
@christopherv Of course! Also you mention tofu and protein shakes. Try out tempeh, seitan, and lentils (and other beans) too! Solid sources of protein that give some room for variety.
 
@dawn16 Oh I definitely eat all those things! Unfortunately I'm just still in the adjusting phase where beans and legumes bloat me to hell, so I can't eat a ton of them just yet. I will say though that I'm loving the variety of meals that I cook now! I honestly thought a vegetarian diet would be boring, but it feels like it's the other way around. I used to just eat bland chicken breast to meet my protein goals and didn't enjoy half the things I ate. Now I'm experimenting with all kinds of awesome curries and soups and such and I love it all!
 
@listenhere Thank you, I agree with this wholeheartedly. Sometimes I think I've spent so much time in the fitness community (especially a lifting-centric one) that I've forgotten how to just be a human. There are plenty of people out there who are perfectly healthy and fit and don't count calories, macros, etc., like you said. And I'm especially prone to overthinking pretty much everything in my life.

I guess my height/stature make it hard for me to take the "listen to my body" approach, because it's so easy for me to gain weight and I really love to eat, haha. I'm by no means overweight but I'd definitely like a more fit physique, and I had that when I was lifting regularly. I just know that if I lift more, I'll likely have to eat more protein, and I hate having to force that.

I guess it's even harder when your friends are powerlifters/olympic lifters and triathletes who are on borderline keto diets. It makes my diet seem inadequate in comparison for some reason, even though it makes me happy to know that it's a much less cruel (albeit not totally cruelty-free) diet.
 
@christopherv I totally get that. It's hard to be relaxed when everyone around you is really, really reliant on numbers. And if you enjoy hanging out with them, y'all probably talk shop and they want to talk numbers.

But you're right-- with your stature and weight, you're fairly at an ideal spot (from a numbers standpoint anyhow-- the irony!). What about keeping a food journal for a few weeks, just taking a look at what you're eating compared with what kind of routine you're doing? If you do that for a few weeks, and compare it with your weight, you might get a better large-scale idea of the trends in your fitness routine, taking your eating habits into account.
 
@listenhere I do use MyFitnesspal and keep a rough log of what I'm doing activity-wise. I think I was worried at first that I'd feel like I'm not recovering well from my workouts with the lower protein count, but I'm feeling okay. I guess time will tell as I start running and maybe lifting again--it's hard to tell right now since I'm in physical therapy for the shin splints and not doing anything too strenuous outside of that.

I was mostly just curious about how this community looked at the protein debate, since omni fitness communities and non-fitness vegetarian communities have such vastly different outlooks.
 
@christopherv
I guess my height/stature make it hard for me to take the "listen to my body" approach,

Your body is not so much "hungry" as it is "craving" addictive substances that you have gotten it used to. Sugar, highly processed oils, and other chemicals put into these foods trigger the brain for pleasure more than they satiate hunger.

As /@listenhere said (Love the name, btw) When eating a completely plant based diet, you may see these things change. For one, you no longer consume refined sugars or oils, so you remove both the addictive quality as well as the excess calories they provide.

I'll likely have to eat more protein,

Protein isn't just meat. I have fallen in love with lentils.

Also "protein" isn't what your body really needs. It needs the amino acids in the protein. And those you can get elsewhere.
 
@christopherv I have a couple resources to recommend for your researching. Check out Simnett Nutrition on youtube. He talks about protein occasionally. Says he gets about 70g a day, and he looks pretty solid in my opinion. Also consider the book Proteinaholic. It isn't necessarily about protein needed for building muscle, but more about the underlying health risks of how much protein people eat. I personally consume about 100g a day at 6'0" and 172 pounds. I've seen great progress since going vegan last April. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions about anything in your transition. I would be happy to help!
 
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