How do you reconcile the "we don't need that much protein!" attitude of veg*n communities with the "ALL THE PROTEIN!" attitude of fitness communities?
- Thread starter christopherv
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christopherv
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@dad83 Thanks! I know the numbers this study mentions, but I guess I never know what studies to believe, if that makes sense? It seems like everyone on each side of the debate can point to this or that study being unreliable because it's funded by someone with a financial agenda or something. (It doesn't help that I know very little about scientific studies and how to read/analyze/digest them).
@christopherv This is a meta-study. Use it as starting number and see how it goes. That's my opinion at least.
Adjust later if you want, but it's a starting point, not a necessary endpoint.
Adjust later if you want, but it's a starting point, not a necessary endpoint.
@christopherv I don't really think about it too much. I'm 5'6 130lbs female looking to gain more muscle. I did track my calories for a week to get an idea of how much I'm eating which is about 1900cals with 70g + of it being protein. I try to listen to my body, right now I'm fine I can see I'm improving and I feel great. If I feel like I need to eat more I will eat more! There are so many views on what to eat, it's a bit hard to keep up with so I'm just enjoying the journey 
christopherv
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@christopherv Coming from a similar background and getting inconclusive answers, it seems all intuitive for what works and what doesn't work. I'll see if I can somehow organize my thoughts for these last few months.
So I've been plant-based since the start of the new year, and prior to this I would range from 0.8g/lb-1.25g/lb of protein. I was pretty anal about hitting my protein. I've read research and other subreddit/forums about not needing much protein relative to fitness community (~0.6 g range, which for anyone in fitness community will seem very low), and it made sense because you only readily lose muscle going on a cut or going a full sedentary lifestyle. I know high proteins is advocated in the fitness community as sound advice because it makes cutting much more easier.
Going plant-based, I've been hitting about 0.6 g/lb to 0.8g/lb, and I've been getting stronger, especially considering I've been lifting for several years now. I was reading that some ranges like 0.64g/lb-0.8g/lb tend to be more adequate. I'm also on a lean bulk, so all those carbs help with that. I'm going to be going on a cut soon, so I'll be playing around with these ranges and see how I feel.
TL;DR: I feel high protein in fitness industry is because of bodybuilders on steriods can make use of high protein diet, and it's easier for fitness purposes, not necessarily life purposes
So I've been plant-based since the start of the new year, and prior to this I would range from 0.8g/lb-1.25g/lb of protein. I was pretty anal about hitting my protein. I've read research and other subreddit/forums about not needing much protein relative to fitness community (~0.6 g range, which for anyone in fitness community will seem very low), and it made sense because you only readily lose muscle going on a cut or going a full sedentary lifestyle. I know high proteins is advocated in the fitness community as sound advice because it makes cutting much more easier.
Going plant-based, I've been hitting about 0.6 g/lb to 0.8g/lb, and I've been getting stronger, especially considering I've been lifting for several years now. I was reading that some ranges like 0.64g/lb-0.8g/lb tend to be more adequate. I'm also on a lean bulk, so all those carbs help with that. I'm going to be going on a cut soon, so I'll be playing around with these ranges and see how I feel.
TL;DR: I feel high protein in fitness industry is because of bodybuilders on steriods can make use of high protein diet, and it's easier for fitness purposes, not necessarily life purposes
christopherv
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@dawn16 This is definitely helpful. Thank you! I've felt the same way... despite things seeming very black and white in the fitness community, I work and feel best when just listening to my body. (I do track to make sure I hit SOME kind of reasonable protein goal, but making myself hit 100g a day when I was omni was a struggle and I didn't enjoy most of the foods I was eating... because I've never been huge into meat, anyway).
@christopherv I feel fitness community high protein diet is more like better safe than sorry. No one wants to see their gains magically disappear, so they feel they rather err on the side of high protein.
When I was eating meat, if I went really high on protein (at least 1.25g/lb and higher) my lifts in the gym felt strong. I couldn't exactly say I felt the same going 0.8g/lb-1.0g/lb. I would feel sluggish and not strong a lot of times. However, when I went plant-based, I'm much more energetic, and protein isn't really an issue going 0.6g/lb.
I think the difference between fitness and plant based approach is that fitness emphasizes more on macros to get to some end goal. With a plant-based approach, macros is of important, but micros are equally as important. A haphazard approach could mean being deficient in something like b12. Eating higher protein for fitness approach indirectly means eating more meat, which indirectly hits a good amount of micros. I would really just concentrate more on hitting adequate amounts of protein for your needs and fulfilling your micronutrient needs. The approach upon reflection makes much better sense than just going higher protein that I had to get my mindset out of.
When I was eating meat, if I went really high on protein (at least 1.25g/lb and higher) my lifts in the gym felt strong. I couldn't exactly say I felt the same going 0.8g/lb-1.0g/lb. I would feel sluggish and not strong a lot of times. However, when I went plant-based, I'm much more energetic, and protein isn't really an issue going 0.6g/lb.
I think the difference between fitness and plant based approach is that fitness emphasizes more on macros to get to some end goal. With a plant-based approach, macros is of important, but micros are equally as important. A haphazard approach could mean being deficient in something like b12. Eating higher protein for fitness approach indirectly means eating more meat, which indirectly hits a good amount of micros. I would really just concentrate more on hitting adequate amounts of protein for your needs and fulfilling your micronutrient needs. The approach upon reflection makes much better sense than just going higher protein that I had to get my mindset out of.
christopherv
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@dawn16 Yeah, something that never felt right to me about the hard protein approach was the amount of processed stuff I saw my friends eating (and that I also ate to meet my goals). Sure, it got us results, but I can only stuff my face with so many artificially sweetened protein bars before I never want to see one again.
And to your point, I've found that my micros are much more on point since going mostly vegetarian (I'm really more pescetarian at the moment). I always thought my iron would be low because it was always low when I ate meat, but it's actually improved thanks to all the beans and legumes.
And to your point, I've found that my micros are much more on point since going mostly vegetarian (I'm really more pescetarian at the moment). I always thought my iron would be low because it was always low when I ate meat, but it's actually improved thanks to all the beans and legumes.
@christopherv Just this morning I was deadlifting 330 lb. I could never lift that much when I was eating meat. Quite frankly I test things and see how things work. When I just started going vegan which was literally like 6 weeks ago. I was trying to get as much protein as possible I weighed 180 and was trying to get .8g/lb. But that required my forcing myself to eat more and drink protein shakes.
I believe the easiest approach is the best. Right now I just eat until I'm content, stay hydrated, and monitor my lifts. I don't even know how much protein I consume. I know for a fact I consume less than 100g probably close to 60-70g and I weigh 168 currently.
And I'm cutting while maintaining strength and most of my muscle mass. When i actually start bulking again protein will be even less of an issue. I'm not sure what science has to say, but I'm under the impressions that micronutrients play a larger role in performance than Macronutrients (granted you are eating enough food).
I believe the easiest approach is the best. Right now I just eat until I'm content, stay hydrated, and monitor my lifts. I don't even know how much protein I consume. I know for a fact I consume less than 100g probably close to 60-70g and I weigh 168 currently.
And I'm cutting while maintaining strength and most of my muscle mass. When i actually start bulking again protein will be even less of an issue. I'm not sure what science has to say, but I'm under the impressions that micronutrients play a larger role in performance than Macronutrients (granted you are eating enough food).
@christopherv There’s a pretty decent book out there called “The protein myth”, or the fact that the estimates for protein needs are massively controversial. The highest RDA is about 30 percent of calories, but as low as 10 percent is often recommended. I get around 10% and I’d say I’m doing ok at 190ish 8% body fat, no supplements other than b12 and a little creatine here and there. Not to sound like a d bag, just like proving you can do this without animals being subjected to hell on earth.
“For a relatively active adult, eating enough protein to meet the RDA would supply as little as 10% of his or her total daily calories” - from the Harvard health blog, whatever that’s worth. By the way, RDA means almost nothing outside of what is kind of sort of agreed upon by those studying the particular area of nutrition.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/how-much-protein-do-you-need-every-day-201506188096
“For a relatively active adult, eating enough protein to meet the RDA would supply as little as 10% of his or her total daily calories” - from the Harvard health blog, whatever that’s worth. By the way, RDA means almost nothing outside of what is kind of sort of agreed upon by those studying the particular area of nutrition.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/how-much-protein-do-you-need-every-day-201506188096
@christopherv Why is it ok for a meat eater to rely on chicken and whey but when a vegan relies on tofu and vegan protein powder than everyone loses their minds? You can get 200 grams of protein easily in a vegan diet. It requires a mind shift change and some creative thought. Patrick baboumian has a 100 G protein shake every day and he is half way there with one meal.
@christopherv I don't stress too much over it. I primarily lift weights and according to some fitness communities I should eat upwards of 110g per day. Not happening with how little I eat. And if I try to cram in that much, it makes me feel sick because I'm eating protein powders and fake meats and over all just too much processed sh*t. I feel MUCH better eating 80-90g and filling the rest of my calories with whole foods. And on top of that, I have noticed 0 difference in my abilities or appearance. In fact I probably do better because I feel better. So there's my two cents
christopherv
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@christopherv Yeah, and sometimes they're okay (like I'm fine with tofu and all) but other times I'd rather just not eat even
christopherv
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@christopherv It's okay I never saw it lol