How I got the Full Front Lever

[burtonlux]

@jesusloverr thanks for answering!

 

[sister_diane]

@jesusloverr This is a fantastic post and I am saving it. Since the gyms closed in December here I’ve had to transition from a mixed programme to a full callisthenics programme and I’ve seen some great improvements, but I seem to be hitting a plateau in the last couple of weeks. So perhaps it’s time for a new training schedule.

I’ve learnt the ring muscle-up and I’m working towards the archer/one arm ring chin-up, but both progresses have stalled. My straight arm strength, however, is absolutely shit, so I think it’s time for me to try your programme.

I do have a couple questions though:

• I can do a tucked front lever, but I can’t do a tucker front lever pull with straight arms from a hanging position. Especially at the bottom it just feels impossible. Is this normal? Should I view the pull as starting from more of a 135° angle instead of starting at 180°? Or is this even too large a range of motion? I usually do them hanging from a high bar.
• That brings me to my second question. Right now I have a low bar to my disposal where I could touch the ground as you do, but when I move to my new place I probably won’t. Do you reckon I just pick an angle for my arms to which I do those negatives and then go back up?
• And then a question that has bugged me for longer. If I want to do FL rows but can only do a tucked FL, then how can I even do rows? Aren’t my knees in the way of the bar? Maybe I should do it on rings then?

Anyways, great post!

 

[imangster]

@sister_diane For your last question, yeah do tuck FL rows on rings. If it's too hard then you could do arc rows instead.

 

[jesusloverr]

@sister_diane

I can do a tucked front lever, but I can’t do a tucker front lever pull with straight arms from a hanging position. Especially at the bottom it just feels impossible. Is this normal? Should I view the pull as starting from more of a 135° angle instead of starting at 180°? Or is this even too large a range of motion? I usually do them hanging from a high bar.

All of my FL work was done on my tall parallettes (aka. dip bars), so the very bottom of my negative or FL pull was closer to between 90-110° mark than it was the 180°. The only time I did pulls from 180° was back when I first started experimenting with calisthenics at the gym, but I stopped them once COVID closed my gym and I started exclusively workout out from home.

That brings me to my second question. Right now I have a low bar to my disposal where I could touch the ground as you do, but when I move to my new place I probably won’t. Do you reckon I just pick an angle for my arms to which I do those negatives and then go back up?

Same as above, if you want to follow my programming I'd do the negative to around 90-110°. You can always experiment with this as you progress. In fact, this could be your form of progressive overload for this move - gradually increasing the angle, rather than sets/reps/progressions.

And then a question that has bugged me for longer. If I want to do FL rows but can only do a tucked FL, then how can I even do rows? Aren’t my knees in the way of the bar? Maybe I should do it on rings then?

Rings would certainly be a good work around. Another would be to use two dip bars (this is what I did in the beginning) doing your rows with a neutral grip, and once you have the adv. tuck, you can transition onto one dip bar with a pronated grip.

 

[sister_diane]

@jesusloverr Thanks a lot!

 

[jesusloverr]

@sister_diane You’re welcome. Good luck!

 

[stamstam]

@jesusloverr I've been doing the FFL with a band as assistance and slowly moving the rings higher which makes the band pull less. What do you think of this method? The band goes around your feet.

 

[jesusloverr]

@stamstam I must admit there were some training sessions where I would use a band to assist me with the negatives, and occasionally to assist with FFL rows. But In the end I stopped using them since although they were good in helping me internalise good form, I didn't quite get the same pump from them. That doesn't mean to say it won't work for you - I think you should go for it, try it for a mesocycle, and if you plateau, mix it up and try something else.

 

[stamstam]

@jesusloverr Okay thanks. I've done it for a mesocycle and feel plateaued so I'll try doing what you've done. I've been at it for 4 months and have had very little progress.

 

[howwhen]

@jesusloverr So you were doing a full 3-5 minute rest between each of your 5 isometric holds? Seems like a lot! Excellent progress btw

 

[jesusloverr]

@howwhen Thank you! Yeah that is one of the negatives of training these strength skills, the workouts can be quite time consuming. I suppose you could lower the progression and subsequently lower the rest time if you were stuck for time, but then technically speaking you wouldn't be training absolute strength then, you'd be training more for hypertrophy, which debatably, would not get you the FFL.

 

[dawn16]

@jesusloverr I’ve heard that putting isometrics before doing straight arm and bend arm work isn’t as beneficial as the opposite way around, how true is that?

EDIT: also, when you implemented the one legged front lever into the isometric training hold for 6-10s, is that including both legs or just one? i.e. holding left leg first and right leg tucked for 6-10s then switch

 

[jesusloverr]

@dawn16

I’ve heard that putting isometrics before doing straight arm and bend arm work isn’t as beneficial as the opposite way around, how true is that?

I’ve never heard that before. Where did you hear that?

when you implemented the one legged front lever into the isometric training hold for 6-10s, is that including both legs or just one? i.e. holding left leg first and right leg tucked for 6-10s then switch

So I would do the right leg first for 6-10s. Then take a 3-5min rest. That’s one set. Then left (set 2) > right (set 3) > left (set 4), and then for the final 5th set (I didn’t mention this) I’d usually go for a 1/2 straddle or do one more set on my weaker side.

Hope that makes sense

 

[dawn16]

@jesusloverr Hi! thanks for the reply i really appreciate it!

I cant remember but I remember another poster mentioning that straight arm work should be prioritised over isometrics since it provides greater gains and putting isometrics first might affect the progress of straight arm strength, might be wrong though!

Alright that does make sense, I’ll try it and see how it goes, thanks for the hard work man!

 

[dawn16]

@jesusloverr Hi, out of curiosity, when you say pull twice a week, does that mean you did this same programme twice a week or is this for one day only?

 

[jesusloverr]

@dawn16 Hey. Yeah I did the same programme twice per week.

 

[talldog]

@jesusloverr Was your body able to manage fatigue with this frequency? I am basically doing the same thing now but more volume & intensity, but only once per week. I get sore after the workout but not progressing as steadily as i had hoped.

 

[jesusloverr]

@talldog Yeah my body seemed to cope with it fine. I would take a deload week every 5-6 weeks, and for me that meant almost zero strength work, just casual mobility and handstand stuff.

I’d also react to how my body felt, so even if I aimed for Mon-Tue-off-Thu-off-Sat-off, if say on Tuesday I wasn’t feeling it, I’d take it off and do the workout on Wednesday instead, pushing everything back one day.

I will say though, fatigue definitely accumulated for me towards the end. That contributed to why I eventually got golfer’s elbow when I started adding in OACU training: I rushed into it too fast, and should’ve allowed my body more time to recover and adapt to that new stress

 

[talldog]

@jesusloverr I see! Did you train for OACU on the same pull days as for the front lever? I have been alternating my pull trainings. So on a given day its either pull-FL or pull-OACU. I call it horizontal & vertical pull days. It ends up being 2x a week pull trainings per week, and i dont keep track of the days of the week, i just do push-pull-rest (horiz-vertical) sequence repeatedly whatever days they fall on. I do this because some days i feel more shitty and will take an extra rest day, or some weekends i already have an activity.

 

[jesusloverr]

@talldog Yeah I trained FL and OACU on the same day, simply because I was previously training weighted chin-ups on the same day as my FL with no problems so I thought I could handle the volume. I was wrong! Hindsight is 20/20.

I think your plan of breaking them up is good. After all you can always re-evaluate after a mesocycle if you plateau.