Is L-Citrulline better than beet juice for vascularity and the appearance of veins?

[michaelkep]

I never tried L-Citrulline, but currently have been chugging beet juice 10 minutes before I go lift and the veins in forearms are simply phenomenal. I'm just wondering if anybody thinks that L-Citrulline would be even better? Thanks in advance.

Edit ---this is what I take on the drive to gym and in locker room

 

[scpro]

@michaelkep First time hearing about this. Is it just about appearance, or can it give a better workout?

 

[rmmc]

@scpro I take 1500 of citrulline malate and my stamina and endurance shoots through the roof. Citrulline malate paired with caffeinated black coffee and I'm a train that cannot be stopped. Seriously. Obviously you will need good fuel (food/diet) in the tank.

 

[davis32123]

@rmmc I add it to a Redbull.

 

[jimatjude]

@scpro Same here

 

[trumpeter2]

@scpro It's about 0-10% more endurance. Especially later in the workout when sets become harder. Could sometimes give you 2 reps.

It's especially useful for people who don't get enough NO and it's precursors in through diet.

When you hear about garlic being healthy that's about 90% because of the effects NO has (lowers blood pressure through dilation of peripheral arteriols).

There are very little hypertrophy studies but it's likely and conceivable that it's beneficial.

 

[grace2ann]

@trumpeter2 Not to be that guy, but what's "NO"?

 

[trumpeter2]

@grace2ann Have you seen fast n furious? They use NOS or nitrous oxide or N2O to boost their cars.

NO is the chemical notation for nitric oxide.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitric_oxide

In your vessel cells it's the messenger molecule to say "relax, dilate, let more blood through", essentially the same as in fast n furious, gives you a boost. Since your body already produces and uses it you only get a small boost through supplementation.

L citrulline, beet root juice, l arginine, garlic... increases your bodies natural NO storage.

 

[grace2ann]

@trumpeter2 Ok thanks for the context! I gotta look into the mechanism for what NO does in the body because I don't think it's the same as with cars.

Nitrous oxide is useful in IC engines because 1) it is more concentrated with oxygen than atmospheric air and 2) its rapid expansion from a liquid to gas when sprayed from the high pressure bottle is very endothermic, which cools the air going into the combustion chamber. Both of these increase the concentration of oxygen in the combustion chamber compared to just using atmospheric air. This allows for more fuel to be combusted while maintaining the same stoichiometric ratio between fuel and air and consequently generates more power.

I don't think the human body is using nitric oxide for more efficient cellular respiration in the same way; that would be like breathing in a bunch of pure O2 before a lift. But I do see how NO's effect of vasodilation (especially in the lungs) would improve oxygenation and consequently endurance/performance.

 

[trumpeter2]

@grace2ann NOS isnt N2O. Besides "giving boost" the analogy doesn't hold up.

It's just the messenger thing. In the muscle more blood is the main way it works. I never thought about the lung thing before to be honest.

 

[kenya123]

@scpro Same. Does the vascularity increase just during the workout? Or does it help maintain it after lifting as well?

 

[bea10]

@scpro The concept that “pump” will affect your workout is a myth, however if the feeling of it “amps you up” and allows you to have more effective workouts, I could certainly see the argument that it could be helpful.

In the end your fitness journey is your own, and you aren’t “wrong” for doing things purely because you like it (within reason, of course). Chase the pump if it is something you want, or don’t - you can still make gains toward your goals either way.

The fundamentals never change, but the road toward self actualization has plenty of twists and turns.

 

[davis32123]

@bea10 Do you have references backing up the idea that a pump has no effect on a workout? My recollection is that a pump is basically more water/fluid in the muscle. More fluid in the muscle is suspected to be one of the ways creatine is effective.

 

[bea10]

@davis32123 Muscle hypertrophy is far too complex a process to adequately answer the question “is a pump good or necessary for muscle building.” While the pump is related to increased muscle vascular flow, which does seem to have some correlation with eventual protein synthesis, hypertrophy is much more consistently tied to workout intensity and volume, such that the “pump” is by no means necessary or optimal. There’s a great deal of research on optimal volume/intensity (and all the usual suspects on YouTube have videos on it. Nippard, Norton, etc.)

That is to say: there isn’t a fantastic answer to the question, but we have pretty good reason to believe that you can make effective gains with or without a pump.

 

[davis32123]

@bea10 Good answer thanks.

 

[mlenadc]

@michaelkep I got a better pump lifting taking 10 grams of Citrulline 1/2 hour before pump sets.

But I 100% got much better vascularity from beet juice nitrate concentrate powder.

Pro-Tip: Use both

 

[robinwollff]

@mlenadc Citrulline or Citrulline malate? 10 of the former sounds overkill

 

[mlenadc]

@robinwollff Pure Citrulline. I don't like the malate form as it strips enamel off the teeth.

It's most assuredly not overkill. That's what an efficacious dose looks like.

 

[robinwollff]

@mlenadc https://examine.com/supplements/citrulline/#examine-database

Collection of studies indicating effective dose for most people being 3-4 grams.

If 10 works for you that’s cool, it’s just a lot more than the recommended lol

 

[mlenadc]

@robinwollff

I got a better pump lifting taking 10 grams of Citrulline 1/2 hour before pump sets.

I got a better pump lifting taking 10 grams of Citrulline 1/2 hour before pump sets.

I'm sharing what I do. YES 3-4 grams works. YES 10 grams works even better than 3-4.

WHERE can a recommendation be found to not take more than 3-4 grams?