KB or r/bodyweight RR

[leovvv]

Full disclosure, I posted a similar question in r/ bodyweight fitness

TLDR: Given deconditioned status and level of being overweight, should I stick with KB work I can do now (the giant, KB workout snacks, etc), or do the bodyweight fitness recommended routine, knowing that it will be a LONG time before I hit my goal of pullups for multiple reps?

I am very detained. Haven't worked out seriously, other than walks, in about over a year. Used to compete at a very amateur, local level in powerlifting, but after years of that and injuries and changing goals, that is just not appealing to me and I want to focus on bodyweight and kettlebell training as thy align more with my goals.

I was going to start with the bodyweight fitness RR until a could crank out a few pullups and several pushups and then start incorporating KB work beyond just swings. Kind of like, rebuilding myself. However, I have never done a pullup. I used to be able to crank out a couple chinups, but that was at least 60 pounds ago. I know from my current strength levels and level of overweight, its going to be a long time before I make it to full pullups. However, I have my KBs here and ready to go.

Now, while my goal is to mix the two modalities, my initial thought was to start with bodyweight to kinda recondition my body and because I've never been really good at bodyweight work and it is a goal of mine. But given the fact that I'm sure it will be a LONG time before I can do a single pullup but can do most the KB work I want to right now...

Is it smarter to do the KB work I know I can do now, and then revisit the bodyweight stuff when lighter and hitting pullups aren't such a far away goal?

 

[sharita3737]

@leovvv If you have the time, you can work on both. When I started with kettlebells over 1.5 years ago, I was overweight and barely had been working out regularly for the first time in my adult life for about 6 months. I could barely do full push ups and basically do no pullups. I continued to add push up variations (eg push up on knees, incline pushups, etc) and pull up variations (dead hangs, negative pullups, band assisted pullups) as some variation of my push/pull movements along with kettlebells.

These small variations are nice to add to kettlebell training because they hit things that the bells aren't great at (eg push ups for horizontal push, pullups for vertical pull) but also conversely kettlebell presses and rows/cleans will also indirectly help those body weight movements.

The key thing is to setup a plan that you can stick to on a weekly basis and know how to make progress on, whether it be more sets, reps, more weight or new profession on a given exercise (eg push up on knees to regular push ups).

Good luck! You got this.

 

[whalstib]

@leovvv Here's what i did.

I started RR and did it for a month, added kettlebell swings for the hinge progression (by far the weakest link in the RR, they even recommend barbell training here if you have one). After a little under 3 months i did my first pull-up.

My logic was to do bodyweight until i get some of my strength back (i did fuck all for 3 years, covid then family member got cancer, very stresful time). I decided i will do it until i can do a pullup and then i'll see. I did that so now i'll do the Rite of Passage that has kettlebells and pullups. After watching a lot of Dan John videos i've decided to do programs for 2-3 months and then switch. No searching for the perfect workout. Just do it for a while and then switch.

That being said, weight loss is down to diet.

 

[ivank]

@leovvv In my opinion the BWF recommend routine takes too long to be practical as a beginner friendly option. When starting out the key is consistency and building the habit. A routine that takes over an hour runs contrary to that. The difficulty of some of the bodyweight movements when you are untrained I think adds a little friction to building the habit, where the difficulty can make it feel less rewarding.

Personally I would focus on kettlebells and add in a little bodyweight to supplement. If your goal is to do pull ups, you should start training pulling movements, no reason to wait. Kettlebell rows will probably not challenge your pulling as much as horizontal rows, Australian pull ups, negative pull ups, or band assisted pull ups. Pick or plan a routine you can do in 30-50 minutes.

There is no reason you can’t do a bit of both styles. KBs will be great for developing core & lower body strength and the core bodyweight exercises will do a good job with upper body strength.

 

[hunter101]

@leovvv Why not both?

Do a kb program, and combine it with the RR progression for pullups and rows.

 

[rabbie77]

@leovvv KB now. Then more body weight. Start with a fundamentals program with multiple exercises though.

 

[raymo]

@leovvv You can do a little bit of both. Focus on the one you enjoy doing the most. Then maybe add in or swap something.

Kettlebells don't really have a great alternative to pull-ups and bodyweight stuff doesn't really have a great alternative to swings. For swapping it's a matter of swapping exercises that work similar muscle groups. Like you could do inverted rows, barbell rows, dumbbell rows, or rows with kettlebells. They all hit similar muscles in similar ways.

If it seems confusing or you don't want to deal with figuring things out yet you can pick one program to follow and not worry too much about it. Maybe alternate programs where you go everything for one program before doing workouts for the other. If they are both fullbody you could do the RR one day, rest day, then do kettlebells. If there is a split go through all the days in the split before having a rest day and doing the other programs workout.

 

[soldierofgod1988]

@leovvv I would do both, especially if you have kettlebells sitting idle at your disposal. You haven't mentioned your exact weight, but there are plenty of options you can train to work a real pullup.

I like gymnast rings with adjustable straps as addition to kettlebells. For pullup training, you should do ring rows, hang variations and jump up pullups. Also skin the cat variations and upside down work is fun.

For pushing you should train static holds, then progress to hands turned out static holds, then to ring pushups and dips. Ring dips are very tough at high body weight but they'll give a great sense of accomplishment when you get your first reps.

While rings are great for upper body and core, you'll need loads of creativity to train legs and that's where kettlebells enter the picture: swings, squats, lunges, cleans, snatches etc. also overhead pressing is easier trained with kettlebells than body weight.

 

[soldierofgod1988]

This is also a nice beginner rings video

 

[jar1437]

@leovvv I think the most important thing is to build the habit.

I think that starts with doing the things you can do now and progressively increasing the difficulty (reps, sets, weight, time, etc).

I also think that fixed weight things are probably easier for people that are overweight than body weight things.

For example, bodyweight squats or pullups for someone who's overweight might be equivalent to someone who's not overweight doing squats with a plate carrier.

 

[judianity]

@leovvv I started where you are at one time. Bodyweight exercises can be tough when completely out of shape, even with progressions. Do KB'd instead, box squats, deadlifts, overhead presses and rows. Focus on form first before adding weight, then move on to swings, etc. Also make sure you go for walks most days.

 

[restinhispeace]

@leovvv Honestly Kettlebells kind of suck for horizontal pushing and vertical pulling, so you will want to incorporate pushups/dips and pullups in your KB routine anyway. From there your imagination is the limit. What is nice is that KB and bodyweight exercises can flow well together.

If I had to start over again, I would do this A/B split.

Warmup: 5 minutes of light turkish get-ups, 2 minutes of crawling, 1 minute of abs

Workout A:

Dan John's Humane burpee : 15 KB swings, 5 goblet squats, 5 pushups, 15 swing, 4 squats, 4 pushups... Down to 1 squat and pushup. (Try not resting, or for very short. If that becomes easy, start from 6,7,8,9,10 squats and pushups, then up the weight and start again.)

5-10 minutes of suitcase carry, then go for a walk if you have time.

Workout B:

15 minutes of clean and press. Sets of 5-10, don't worry about a defined progression, just push it and take the gains as they come for the time being. If you can do more total reps or increase weight, cool.

10 minutes of pull-up training, then again go for a walk if you can. Mid/long term, you could superset the pull-up work with your clean and presses.

If you have done powerlifting, you can probably figure out how to progress. (Training density first then weight, then density then weight...) This uses both kettlebell and bodyweight for what they do better.

 

[himibelieve]

@leovvv I'll throw in another vote for both.

In 2020 i was just really hitting my stride in terms of working out after a ling time of inactivity. When COVID hit I started doing the RR and bought some KB because I thought they were cool.

The RR is good but you can augment with bells easily if you're deconditioned. Here's what I suggest starting out:

1. Do goblet squats before progressing to more complex skills like split squats. Adding weight, even a little bit, will prepare you for those more complex skills. Then when you do progress, just adding the KB makes the more exercise harder too. So start with air squats, move to goblet squats, the split squats, add weight, etc...
2. Practice RDLs with the KB. Not a ton weight to deadlift but you can develop the skill easily with a KB. One you get comfortable with the regular RDL, progress to the single leg RDL and then add the KB again. The single leg RDL with a KB is a great exercise because it really works your core and balance too. Try doing double KB DL or using asymmetric loads to work your core as you progress.
3. Suitcase carrys are a good place to start if you're deconditioned. Just pick up the bell and walk. They're more of a workout than you'd think they should be.

 

[joyousjen]

@leovvv Forget the kettlebell, the running the huffing etc
Look at YouTube search for "jump for hope 2023"

Get one of these mini trampoline like
https://www.decathlon.ie/p/309737-2...l3kFPspFgJOnY2_Q3jSRTq6yZO6jGSRMaAsj6EALw_wcB

Get on it out some music on go for 1 hour 2x a day you'll work right in zone 2 while having a blast.
Search jumping Singapore YouTube.

By using this method in 1 month you'd be able to go out and run 3km in zone 2 without killing yourself

Build for 5km run in zone 2...

 

[darienjames]

@leovvv I did the RR for 6 months and had reasonable gains, but the constant soreness and slow pull-up progress demotivated me.

I can't quite remember how (possibly googling DOMS) I ended up with Simple and Sinister KB. Long story short , I've been doing it for 7 months, I've hit a few milestones, and are constantly challenged to get stronger and improve form. I've had better muscle gains and near zero DOMS.

I'd still like to hit 10 strict pull-ups in a row and 50 push-ups. They're a long way off from 6 & and 37, though.

 

[nikpraw]

@leovvv I think a program like simple and sinister would be a great place to start. Near daily effort, constant progress, and the warmup squats as well as get ups are good hard work for overweight guys.

Then throw in some pushups from the knees and some pull up negatives now and then.

Do it all-out for time every week or so and blow your cardio out.

Like you said, you need to put yourself back together. Nothing like basic human movement patterns under load to do that.

 

[eberzas]

@leovvv Sounds like you need to work on is consistency so I would recommend KBs. I did the RR for a long time and loved it, but it’s a long workout, an hour plus. No offense, but you sound like you’re in the stage of reading about working out and deliberating on how to get started. Get a kettlebell and do a simple program like S&S or just set a timer for 10-15 min a day and do some goblet squats and swings. Do that for a few months until you’ve built some consistency and then you can reassess.

Also fwiw, the RR has progressions built in if you can’t do a pull up yet if that is truly the ting your stuck on.