@livingme7 I can be completely wrong here but wasn’t there a study done w trained individuals that showed even them had a large degree of difficulty actually determining RIR?
New "RIR 1-2 vs RIR 0" Study - Similar gains
- Thread starter livingme7
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emet_ziton
New member
@livingme7 This one of this study’s controls was they tested them on how accurate they were with estimating RIR before hand, house of hypertrophy just did a video on it
@livingme7 Lou ferrigno trained by pyramid up in weight keeping reps the same. So start with a low weight for 10 reps , keep increasing but always do 10 reps.
That means you got like 20+ reps in reserve for alot of sets.
That means you got like 20+ reps in reserve for alot of sets.
uniqueperception
New member
@uniqueperception I think with you experience if you concentrate on it you can develop a sense of it in a few weeks.
But how a certain RIR feels depends on the exercise and the person. Some people begin a set and almost every rep looks like a grind and for others only the last rep slows down or the bar suddenly just doesn’t move. I can accurately judge 1 RIR on every exercise, but 2-4 only on some. More than 4 RIR is more or less impossible to judge for me, but I wouldn’t train with 5+ RIR anyway
But how a certain RIR feels depends on the exercise and the person. Some people begin a set and almost every rep looks like a grind and for others only the last rep slows down or the bar suddenly just doesn’t move. I can accurately judge 1 RIR on every exercise, but 2-4 only on some. More than 4 RIR is more or less impossible to judge for me, but I wouldn’t train with 5+ RIR anyway
@livingme7 Dominant muscles in the first movement favoured failure whilst second favoured RIR. Shows that exercise order and priority are important. RIR may be be best as a balanced approach for sets later in the session whilst failure is still superior for lower volumes that seek to prioritise the earlier movements.
@helen2002 Exactly, sadly there are other studies that don't align with these results so we don't know shit.
@livingme7 care to link?
@livingme7 thanks
surrealist
New member
@livingme7 "Fatigue: Higher in the RIR 0 groups..."
This is what I've always used RIR for. I don't do RIR based mesocycles in the hopes extra hypertrophy, I do them to stagger out and better manage my fatigue. And, in the long run, this will promote healthier and stronger muscle.
This is what I've always used RIR for. I don't do RIR based mesocycles in the hopes extra hypertrophy, I do them to stagger out and better manage my fatigue. And, in the long run, this will promote healthier and stronger muscle.
butterflymich
New member
@livingme7 I do keep an eye on new research. However I have had to do a lot of personal research in the form of trying a variety of techniques over time. What I know more today than I knew when I was in my 20's, 30's, and even part of my 40's, is what true training to failure is for me.
I think the 2 exercises that really help me appreciate the benefits of safely training to failure are the belt squat and pendulum squats. My cadence is slower than most, which starts at 4 Second Positive and 6 Second Negative. Like all my working sets, after it takes me longer into the set to lift in the positive portion of the rep in 4 seconds, I stop counting and move the weight with pure high intensity muscular contraction as fast (non explosive) as possible still trying to lower in 6 seconds, and when I can't get "out of the hole" that is a wrap.
I think the 2 exercises that really help me appreciate the benefits of safely training to failure are the belt squat and pendulum squats. My cadence is slower than most, which starts at 4 Second Positive and 6 Second Negative. Like all my working sets, after it takes me longer into the set to lift in the positive portion of the rep in 4 seconds, I stop counting and move the weight with pure high intensity muscular contraction as fast (non explosive) as possible still trying to lower in 6 seconds, and when I can't get "out of the hole" that is a wrap.
@butterflymich The difference in hypertrophy with a cadence between 2 and up to 8 second is the same.
butterflymich
New member
@deejayjr It is the same, all the available research points to the same conclusion. I don't believe I indicated a slower cadence produced better hypertrophy results. Where I benefit in a slower cadence is reduced injury while still making progress. No momentum and the initial first 2 seconds have no initial force output in an explosive manner, and is initiated by muscular contraction. And at 58, longevity and improved health is my personal priority while reducing potential injury by avoiding initial shearing output force.
That being said, even with a 3 day split, Monday Chest and Back, Wednesday Legs, Fridays Shoulders and Arms, even with the slower cadence, my workouts last at the longest 1/2 hour, and I get to enjoy my grandkids more and other areas of my life that have great value.
That being said, even with a 3 day split, Monday Chest and Back, Wednesday Legs, Fridays Shoulders and Arms, even with the slower cadence, my workouts last at the longest 1/2 hour, and I get to enjoy my grandkids more and other areas of my life that have great value.
@butterflymich I can definitely see the value in slower cadence as you get older. I respect that and I have no issue with it. If it works for you and you feel the risk of getting injured is less keep doing it.
In my defence I guess I'm just a stickler for evidence and I have a tendency to always express that and sometimes it comes off as aggressive. Hopefully you didn't take it that way.
In my defence I guess I'm just a stickler for evidence and I have a tendency to always express that and sometimes it comes off as aggressive. Hopefully you didn't take it that way.
@livingme7 The biggest reason you push for RIR 0 is that 95+% of gym goers don't even know what training to failure actually means.