soccercoach
New member
@porcelainsoul My point is that it is arguably needless increase in risk. Like telling marathon runners they aren't allowed water until they finish.
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Official Discussion: Quick and Thick / Double Grace
danielmullangi
New member
@soccercoach its not needless at all. if this event never existed, no one will ever reach the point where they can do 60 clean and jerks at 135 with perfect form under 5 minutes. now it exists. now its a goal. now its a possibility.. youve gotta take risks to grow. this elevates the highest level, and you want to see the highest level. remember basketball 30 years ago was like what the wnba is like now. im sure in the future years from now on theres gonna be a grace with 100 reps. i hope there is, because i know some athletes are gonna crush it and thats fuckin awesome.
soccercoach
New member
@danielmullangi
Really? So the only reason people develop fitness goals is for crossfit events? That's the single decider that creates things people strive to do? Also, not even close to perfect form. Almost everyone of those guys pulls early. You can see it in the speed clean event too. They are extremely strong, but their form is far from perfect.
And why is that necessarily a good thing? Increased speed on the Tour de France led to countless athletes playing frankenstein in an attempt to reach one of those "goals". Was that necessary?
Only if the only defining point you have for "highest level" is a single number.
You could do that right now. It would take forever, and doing it for time would be fucking stupid, but you could do it now if you felt so inclined. But you don't.
if this event never existed, no one will ever reach the point where they can do 60 clean and jerks at 135 with perfect form under 5 minutes.
Really? So the only reason people develop fitness goals is for crossfit events? That's the single decider that creates things people strive to do? Also, not even close to perfect form. Almost everyone of those guys pulls early. You can see it in the speed clean event too. They are extremely strong, but their form is far from perfect.
now it exists. now its a goal.
And why is that necessarily a good thing? Increased speed on the Tour de France led to countless athletes playing frankenstein in an attempt to reach one of those "goals". Was that necessary?
this elevates the highest level, and you want to see the highest level.
Only if the only defining point you have for "highest level" is a single number.
im sure in the future years from now on theres gonna be a grace with 100 reps.
You could do that right now. It would take forever, and doing it for time would be fucking stupid, but you could do it now if you felt so inclined. But you don't.
danielmullangi
New member
@soccercoach do you think its unnecessary for skateboarders to flip their 24 inch piece of wood and spin multiple times as they fly over 15 stairs? when people push the envelope beautiful things happen.
you know theres a sport where people ski down huge ass slope then basically glide alongside a cliff and see how far out they get? theyre descending vertically like 100s of feet. is that entire sport unnecessary?
think of all the cool things we wouldnt have if we only did what was necessary!
you know theres a sport where people ski down huge ass slope then basically glide alongside a cliff and see how far out they get? theyre descending vertically like 100s of feet. is that entire sport unnecessary?
think of all the cool things we wouldnt have if we only did what was necessary!
danielmullangi
New member
@soccercoach i think we have differing view points on whats cool and not. im perfectly fine with athletes using steroids as long they output spectacles.
i dont think sports should limit themselves so that they only do what is necessary. without people going past what's "necessary" we'd have no michael phelps, no usain bolt, no lu xiaojun...
i dont get what you mean by single number. obviously other events would evolve as well; i think youre being purposefully pedantic to be a jerk.
as for your first point, no, but the fact that crossfit presented the event definitely creates something for people to strive to. obviously anyone could strive to do that, crossfit just made it apparent, now. and now that it has been presented, more people are going to try it, and more people are going to get good at it, thats why it is good to have it.
and your last point, im not a professional athlete, so im obviously not going to. actually, because you said that, i might some day, either scaled or not, since ive got decent strength numbers. like i said before, if crossfit does create this goal (which is not an exclusive single decider for people to strive towards) athletes will practice it, and get better at it. thats all im saying, conquering difficulty elevates the playing field.
i dont think sports should limit themselves so that they only do what is necessary. without people going past what's "necessary" we'd have no michael phelps, no usain bolt, no lu xiaojun...
i dont get what you mean by single number. obviously other events would evolve as well; i think youre being purposefully pedantic to be a jerk.
as for your first point, no, but the fact that crossfit presented the event definitely creates something for people to strive to. obviously anyone could strive to do that, crossfit just made it apparent, now. and now that it has been presented, more people are going to try it, and more people are going to get good at it, thats why it is good to have it.
and your last point, im not a professional athlete, so im obviously not going to. actually, because you said that, i might some day, either scaled or not, since ive got decent strength numbers. like i said before, if crossfit does create this goal (which is not an exclusive single decider for people to strive towards) athletes will practice it, and get better at it. thats all im saying, conquering difficulty elevates the playing field.
@soccercoach Well if they did any of those things, they wouldn't be at the highest level. But Froning just did Grace x2 with perfect form in a time faster than you can probably do Grace once. If thats not the highest level I don't know what is.
soccercoach
New member
@soccercoach If you're clean and jerk is 275 or lower, than 60 clean and jerks at 95 pounds for 60 reps will suck, but if you're worried about injury, than you're fucked up to begin with.
Now imagine your clean and jerk is 355+. Double grace probably had the least chance of injury than any of the workouts so far.
Now imagine your clean and jerk is 355+. Double grace probably had the least chance of injury than any of the workouts so far.
soccercoach
New member
@dawn16
It is completely different to have a strong lift versus being able to perform it for huge numbers. It affects your muscles differently, you have to deal with fatigue, etc. All things that increase your risk of injury, so adding that to a movement that is very complex to begin with and you have a recipe for injury.
While it's true that risk was less with the 135 for Grace than it would be if they were trying to rep out something like 225, so they at least have that going for them.
That is absolutely idiotic.
Now imagine your clean and jerk is 355+. Double grace probably had the least chance of injury than any of the workouts so far.
It is completely different to have a strong lift versus being able to perform it for huge numbers. It affects your muscles differently, you have to deal with fatigue, etc. All things that increase your risk of injury, so adding that to a movement that is very complex to begin with and you have a recipe for injury.
While it's true that risk was less with the 135 for Grace than it would be if they were trying to rep out something like 225, so they at least have that going for them.
but if you're worried about injury, than you're fucked up to begin with.
That is absolutely idiotic.
@soccercoach
Meh. I don't believe it's idiotic. Let's say the average max C&j from the men is 335: 135 pounds is 40 percent of their average max. 40 percent is a laughable load for pretty much any lift. Imagine if your max strict press is 170 pounds, and you get injured pushing 68 pounds. It's practically impossible.
If an injury did occur while lifting 40 percent, than it would be pretty much a freak incident.
Though you could be from the camp that thinks that olympic lifts with an empty bar need to be just as complicated than the oly lifts at max weight.
That is absolutely idiotic.
Meh. I don't believe it's idiotic. Let's say the average max C&j from the men is 335: 135 pounds is 40 percent of their average max. 40 percent is a laughable load for pretty much any lift. Imagine if your max strict press is 170 pounds, and you get injured pushing 68 pounds. It's practically impossible.
If an injury did occur while lifting 40 percent, than it would be pretty much a freak incident.
Though you could be from the camp that thinks that olympic lifts with an empty bar need to be just as complicated than the oly lifts at max weight.
soccercoach
New member
@dawn16
Not impossible. Especially not after 60 reps of it. Ask someone with a 300lb raw bench max to rep out the bar 100x. The majority of them will hit failure before 90. Complete failure.
40% is very light...for several reps. At 30, it becomes notably problematic. At 60, seriously problematic. That's when injury rates go up.
Except no one would be surprised at 50+ reps, because no one advises doing that many. It's dangerous.
I'm not sure what that haphazard sentence is supposed to mean. "Complicated" in that form should be the same (ideally). You shouldn't be doing a different movement with weight vs the bar, you just apply less force.
Imagine if your max strict press is 170 pounds, and you get injured pushing 68 pounds. It's practically impossible.
Not impossible. Especially not after 60 reps of it. Ask someone with a 300lb raw bench max to rep out the bar 100x. The majority of them will hit failure before 90. Complete failure.
40% is very light...for several reps. At 30, it becomes notably problematic. At 60, seriously problematic. That's when injury rates go up.
If an injury did occur while lifting 40 percent, than it would be pretty much a freak incident.
Except no one would be surprised at 50+ reps, because no one advises doing that many. It's dangerous.
Though you could be from the camp that thinks that olympic lifts with an empty bar need to be just as complicated than the oly lifts at max weight.
I'm not sure what that haphazard sentence is supposed to mean. "Complicated" in that form should be the same (ideally). You shouldn't be doing a different movement with weight vs the bar, you just apply less force.
@soccercoach I wasn't aware that failure=injury
soccercoach
New member
@soccercoach Oh
reesespiecespb
New member
@porcelainsoul I think the dangerous part comes from the fact that they are doing this immediately after doing another grueling workout, and being tired after days of grueling workouts.
porcelainsoul
New member
@reesespiecespb It's probably the least dangerous thing they have done...
snowzealot
New member
@porcelainsoul Agree. Crossfitters at that level probably have done the movement a little more than a thousand times. It should feel like drinking water to them. But I do agree the live event could be very biased towards certain athletes.
@snowzealot a thousand? These guys probably do 1000 clean and jerks in 2 week's time.
alfarinicebreaker
New member
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