Taller ladies with very long femurs - Does Squatting Ever Get Easier?

[dombo]

@faithfulsteward7 I’m only 165 and I am also all femur. My feet are also around 258mm (UK 7ish), so ‘knees over toes’ is always a lol queue for me. Feet are probably half the length of my shins…

What helps me is working on ankle mobility before squatting, a wider stance, and pointing my toes out a little. Low bar is also much easier.

I find front/zercher squats also a lot better for depth!

 

[dahveed]

@faithfulsteward7 Its has nothing to do with hight, just putting that out there. I'm 170 and I can do a full russian/asian squat, no problem. My mom is 180, and I think she can do it too? Not sure.

 

[christykbond3377]

@dahveed 170cm is not that tall. 5’10+ ladies with short torsos and long legs are a different situation.

 

[studybudy]

@dahveed Oh cool.

 

[figjam]

@faithfulsteward7 Not even all PTs have up-to-date knowledge, let alone _trainers_. Not sending the knees over the toes _at all_ is being way overly hesitant w/ outdated knee safety information (based on one study in '78 that became the widely accepted myth for decades).

Look into Knees Over Toes for an example of what's more current. It's not something you should charge into blindly with heavy load, it still needs to be approached cautiously and you need to give it lots of time to build up tolerance in the tendons in deeper ranges starting with assisted bodyweight, but you absolutely can train the ability to send the knees over the toes as needed to achieve the squat position more easily.

One option for long femurs is also to point your feet & legs out a bit more to help decrease your back angle. But that's going to also require some good hip stabilizer strength as well. Another method along with this is to start with isometric holds with no or lower weight, focusing on perfect positioning.

Aside from that, another option to help dodge these issues in the standard squat a bit, but still make big strength & balance progress, is to work on single leg squats (split squat, bulgarian split squat). In KOT, they have a deeper single leg squat, but a shallower version could be used as well for your heavier loading.

Meanwhile, also be progressing calf raises (4sec eccentric) to work on calf mobility. These are often slept on because they can feel like an unnecessary accessory exercise, but the truth is that many of us have limited ROM in our calves due to sitting in chairs all the time, so getting these in is very beneficial, not a waste of time.

Btw, what's good about single leg squats/lunge movements is that it also helps you train some hip stability, and individualized leg strength, which translates REALLY nicely into standard double-leg squats, where often people run into issues due to strength imbalance among both their legs.

Any strength (& mobility if needed) that you can gain in your hip stabilizers (and calves), including both adductors & abductors, is going to majorly help with standard squats as well. A lot of people tend to have issues with positioning of the legs/knees in the frontal plane, which mainly comes down to those hip stabilizers being sufficiently strong & mobile.

Meanwhile, also be working on core strength & stability.

Even if standard squats feel too difficult right now, doing all these kinds of things is a great way to better prepare yourself for it.

 

[dinosaur770]

@figjam Agreed. I spoke with a well-established Division 1 Strength and Conditioning Coach who worked with athletes from one of the #1 teams in America. We're talking about athletes who were regularly over 6', sometimes 7' tall. He was not a slouch, either, he regularly focused on continuing education. He was adamant that keeping the knees behind the toes was not going to work. It is a myth.

Yes, you still need to bend forward at the hips and must engage and use your glutes (i.e., you can't just use your quads like a beginner). But if you are already using your glutes, knees over toes (especially for taller folks or long femurs) is going to happen.

 

[cc4fuzzyhuggles]

@faithfulsteward7 I am 5’11 (all leg) and squat shoes were a game changer! They give you extra height in the heel and I could finally go parallel and lower. I can’t get anywhere close to parallel without squat shoes.

 

[shamashaeil]

@faithfulsteward7 Sometimes i wonder like why do I need to progress in squats... Maybe just use the squat press machine, while doing other exercises for core and back.

 

[yeslordiwill]

@faithfulsteward7 She doesnt want your knees moving forward at all? Your trainer is an untrained idiot using science from the 80s.

 

[melco]

@faithfulsteward7 I'm side eyeing your trainer a bit. We're about the same height and I am also a member of the long femur gang. Pushing your knees out is a good cue, but your knees are going to move forward and you are going to have more forward lean compared to someone who is completely proportional. However your torso should not be collapsing (i.e. keep your chest up). Specific tips that worked for me (all these came from an Oly trainer that I worked with for ~5 months last year) 1. Squat shoes or plates. Basically you want to elevate your heels to assist with the mechanics. Squat shoes aren't cheap so try plates first and then invest accordingly 2. Switching to a low bar stance. Not saying you should switch per se, but experiment with different stances until you find something that works for you. When I switched to low bar, I immediately felt my squat in all the places you are meant to feel it 3. Ankle mobility work to aid with greater depth 4. Lots of pause squatting. Like I would basically spend 60% of my time holding at depth so my body would get used to that position

 

[albe]

@melco Yes to all of these things. Low bar positioning, lifting shoes, and mobility are the holy trinity for the long femur gang.

 

[christological]

@faithfulsteward7 So, I'm about 190cm tall and my femur is about close to 50cm.

What really helped me was doing assisted squats! You don't have to actually use the assistance (pulling with your arms), but it's really good to help understand proper form and give you balance when trying things.

I used a TRX system roped around a pull up bar in my home when I was doing this. I'm sure you can do similar in front of a mirror at the gym.

My primary problem was knee pain and balance. Squating in front of a mirror with a balancing aid helped a lot, and I didn't need it forever, just in the beginning to see and understand my body mechanics.

 

[ericn]

@faithfulsteward7 You already have lots of great advice here. I would only add that I actually squat much worse with squat shoes and much better with no shoes or wrestling shoes. Since long femurs and a short torso is my issue, not mobility, this works way better for me. I deadlift over a hundred pounds more than I squat, but I powerlift and my squats are decent enough.

My favorite squat is the zerchers squat for my levers.

For barbell squats, I have to lean over significantly, and I found that doing very high rep squats (25 rep max) really helped my technique. Pausing about halfway up also greatly improved my technique.

Air squats are actually more difficult for me balance wise. Adding weight to the barbell makes the balancing easier.

I also have a very wide stance and my toes are at about 45 degrees, but my knees don't track over my toes.

 

[adventurer83]

@faithfulsteward7 I'm 5'3 but I have lanky limbs and body proportions, and proportionally longer femurs and over 7 years of trying different techniques I still haven't been able to get used to back squatting. It just feels so awkward no matter what I do, what stance I use, it feels terrible. So, I've decided to give up on that and just do front squats from now on.

 

[jack1998]

@adventurer83 Same! Took me a long time to realize my issues with all the traditional squat guidance were due to my long femurs. And the DOMS squatting gives me are absolutely insane compared to any other lift. I stopped lifting and have been doing more activity based strength training but am having glute weakness and wanting to reincorporate some squatting, but I am going to be trying other kinds of squats, like goblet squats. Back squats were always only ever awkward, frustrating, and painful for me and I finally decided I can just....not do them!

 

[patricia13]

@adventurer83 Y'all I'm 5'4" and all torso with short legs and I have the exact opposite problem so I just do back squats. Front squats just make me feel so unsteady. I figure if something works and you are seeing improvements, it's all good to work with your body. Stumpy legs or long legs and all.

 

[naate]

@faithfulsteward7 I have long torso + short femurs and even my knees go forward over my toes, so don't worry too much about that.

 

[anon103]

@faithfulsteward7

Hey! Fellow member of the long femur club here.

We can squat just fine but we need to let our knees go forward of our toes (it does not physically work to squat otherwise) and this requires a serious amount of ankle mobility. The longer your femurs, the more likely your ankles are to hold you back.

She doesn’t want my knees moving forward at all, but I feel they kind of need to or I literally cannot do a squat.

10000% this.

Similarily, to get even close to parallel I need a significant forward lean which I know is supposedly actually ok but I’m worried I’m going to fuck up my back.

It's not going to fuck up your back, but if you can get your knees forward a bit more, you'll be able to stay more upright and that may be a more appropriate position for you

any more depth makes me lose balance without pushing my knees forward + leaning forward + praying to god.

Gotta work on this position (which is likely mostly an ankle issue, but may also involve balance and foot position).

Your trainer sounds like they may not understand what positions work for you. Some self experimentation or a new trainer may be needed.

 

[jacquelinelouise92]

@faithfulsteward7 Doing squat holds to build endurance and the cue my coach gave me about flaring my knees out when doing regular squats helped. ( please have someone qualified to watch your form if you try this because it can be easy to overdo it) Also, look into box squats. You can decrease the height one box at a time to increase your depth as you get better.

 

[bozango]

@faithfulsteward7 I've been lifting for years now and while I've managed to get over 225# squat it is my weakest lift. It's just more challenging and will take longer to master. Squat shoes helped a lot