Which pathway is better: Weighted pull-ups or explosive pull-ups?

[learnandbloom]

@johnnyboy1998 If you don’t eat for size, you won’t put on a lot of size.

Both are nice things to work on.

Personally, I rarely grind reps on pull-ups and overhead press because if I want to move with snap, I should train with snap. Same goes with my weighted pull-ups. I’m up to 35kg for a double. I know that I can do a triple, but I don’t. It would be grindy and look like shit. Maybe once every few months I’ll grind reps out. It’s likely just ego getting the better of me.

 

[jesuisbaldr]

@learnandbloom I dont think people should hold to a "perfect form or nothing" standard when doing reps.

Sure, i strive for perfect form. But while my last rep (or even 2) may look ugly, stopping short of them while i still have a little in my tank- just because they wont be perfect form reps- would be counterproductive to strength goals. My goal is to progress that last rep to better & better form as time goes on.

 

[archercrebb]

@johnnyboy1998 For pure strength, both options will help with your ability to generate force. I'm not sure if either would translate more than the other in terms of "explosiveness", but for overall strength gains in a standard pullup range of motion, weighted pullups would get your further.

The important thing to note here is that your second option, getting higher and higher up the bar, is as much to do about technique as strength. So much so that the higher up you go, the less similar of an excerise it starts to become. Eventually you'll get to a point of a muscle up, and that's a pushing motion. Basically, you're not progressively overloading as much as you think.

You'll get better at whatever you're training at.

 

[mspwj02]

@archercrebb muscle up could be just a pulling action if you're strong and explosive enough, momentum would negate the need for the dip part.

 

[sw1shf1sh]

@archercrebb He’ll get better at moving a heavy weight slower by moving a heavy weight slower. That’s not a bad thing and has carryover.

If his main priority is “athleticism and explosiveness,” he should train explosively.

There is a reason basketball player don’t train like power lifters (although most do a basic weighted strength training)

His exercise selection is odd, in that power training is usually stuff like hang cleans and jumping/plyometrics, not pull-ups.

But if his goal is explosiveness, he should train for explosiveness.

 

[sbvd]

@johnnyboy1998 INFO: what's your current pullups capabilities?

 

[johnnyboy1998]

@sbvd I can do around 10-12 pull-ups with good form on a good day.

I can do 5-6 weighted pull-ups with 30 lbs and 1-2 with 44 lbs.

 

[sbvd]

@johnnyboy1998 well, think about it this way...

sprinters rely on explosive strength. it results in larger muscles, increased strength/effort, not so great for endurance

marathon runners rely on endurance strength. It results in leaner muscles, not so great for strength/effort, but great for endurance.

i read somewhere that the difference is the muscles being used/engaged and how they're trained. marathon runners use the 'long' muscles while sprinters use the 'short' muscles.

so, your question is more about what your goal is.
* Do you want to do 100 pullups? or,
* Do you want to 10 pullups but with three people on your back?

you describe that you don't really care for bulk, so you may want to consider endurance training... but you can also do a mix, or an alternating cycle of both.

NOTE: for all those people that might be outraged by my comment, this is an ultra simplifications of general ideas. i know that strength training builds endurance to a lesser degree and i know that endurance training does build strength in a lesser degree, they're not exclusive. and the numbers i used are arbitrary examples, not literal cited numbers.

 

[ssund]

@johnnyboy1998 Try a combination, start with slow eccentric BW pullups for a set, 2 sets of weighted pull-ups probably 30 lbs based on reps above, then 1-2 sets of explosive pullups. After weighted pullups, BW will feel explosive.

 

[chrysalis_me]

@johnnyboy1998 I think you're looking at this from the wrong viewpoint as I don't think it's an either or. If you're aiming for waist to the bar pull ups progressively adding a small weight to your chest to bar pull ups will always make you stronger and more explosive.

Personally I think you should take a moment to test your current capability for what form cues you're aiming for. If chest/ribs to the bar is your current form cues see how many reps you can get until your form falls below par. Then in your next workout add a 1-2kg weight aim for the same form cues and reps, then the next week add more weight.

You could even have a day where you add assistance and going for a higher rep range so you're getting more successful reps each week, effectively training the muscles to be more efficient at a lower intensity keeping it a well trodden path.

Then at the end of the meso cycle test your new rep range/form cues/pull up variation.

Imo it's not either or, you should use everything you can!

*Edit: also specificity matters. Training standard weighted pull ups will only really improve your standard pull up form, with some slight carry over to explosive pull ups. Train the pull up you want to improve.

 

[bjeke]

@johnnyboy1998 Why not trying bulgarian method, heavy pull up followed by explosive pull up?

 

[johnnyboy1998]

@bjeke That’s actually what I do currently but I didn’t know that it had a name

I do it like that just because body weight pull-ups feel a lot lighter after using weights

 

[travisw918]

@johnnyboy1998 I am planning to alternate both, but following the McGill method for the explosive pull-ups: you do them as singles for optimal form. It takes me around 3 minutes to complete 10 pull ups using this method.
Also, FitnessFAQs posted a very interesting video yesterday about the "grease the groove" method for improving your reps on a particular skill, which basically consists in doing one or two sets at 50% intensity multiple times throughout the day. So if the maximum pull-ups you can do in one go is 10, you'd do no more than 5 reps per set.

 

[kyrani]

@johnnyboy1998 Weighted pull ups will get you muscular and give you explosiveness.

 

[preacherboy2112]

@johnnyboy1998 If your main priority is athleticism and explosiveness, the style in which you upper body pull is not very important. Far more important would ensuring that your regimen includes a combination of weighted, bodyweight, plyometric, sprinting, and aerobic exercise with an emphasis on using the body as a whole rather than splitting it into parts.

In terms of the "look" you are going for, Goggins was a powerlifter for years, then switched to an extreme endurance (both cardio and muscular endurance) regimen. That is a pretty foolproof way to achieve that look, but takes years to build, and does not lead to explosive athleticism.

I don't think you can go wrong cycling through both styles of pull-ups - build up your weighted pull-ups, then switch over to explosive pull-ups, then maybe some higher rep stuff playing with different tempos, grips etc.

 

[dmitry677]

@johnnyboy1998 Weighted for training the muscles. Then clapping pullups are easy. I have a dual pullups bar setup on my rack. I'll start on the bottom, explode to the top, then drop down to the bottom and repeat for reps.

I call that exercise salmon ladder pullups. Honestly the weighted reps on neutral grips was all I needed to get strong enough for those.

Max 30 pullups in a row today. By the time I could do 15 I could do salmon ladder pullups for reps.

I was adding 70 lbs hanging on a belt and loading pin on neutral grips for sets of 5.

Train heavy mostly and once every other week do clapping pullups or if too tired pullups to the chest area.

 

[lethallove]

@johnnyboy1998 Hey I think I can answer this question for you as this is something I’ve exactly been through.

Initially I was trying to get better at explosive pull ups and I was getting nowhere. As soon as I switched it up a little - weighted pull ups (currently at 50% of my body weight attached) + strict pull ups -
Pulling your body as high as possible while keeping your legs perpendicular to the floor at all times.

A mix of these made me much better at explosive pull ups and overall punching power.

 

[hypocrites]

@johnnyboy1998 Just don't do crossfit pullups

 

[mavera2015]

@johnnyboy1998 Use weighted pull-ups as a way to develop the strength to do explosive pull-ups not weighted.

 

[sampaul]

@johnnyboy1998 Over here I’m doing weighted pullups and trying to do them as explosively as I can. Dunno if this is the best way but it does mean I can’t add weight as quickly as I don’t feel like I’ve ‘cleared’ a weight if I can’t pull to my chest