legatichristi
New member
@davidcave1 Got people talking for sure. I didn't intend it to be as inflammatory as it was, but I'm glad that there's discussion getting taken out of it.
Why your homebrew routine is (probably) bad
- Thread starter legatichristi
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- bodyweight fitness
@dawn16 I couldn't even finish reading. The title is written like a clickbait article.
And ultimately, while I fully know that my routine isn't the best routine in the world, it's the best one for me, because it's built towards my goals, interest, and lifestyle. And more importantly, it's the one I enjoy doing and keep doing. Hard to top that.
And ultimately, while I fully know that my routine isn't the best routine in the world, it's the best one for me, because it's built towards my goals, interest, and lifestyle. And more importantly, it's the one I enjoy doing and keep doing. Hard to top that.
kingdomgospelent
New member
legatichristi
New member
@steve337 Fair enough. I def wrote this from a place of frustration with repeating the same information on this sub to people who are completely new to working out, which kneecapped the tone and ultimately hindered the message.
Sounds like you have a good routine that really works for you! That's all that matters
Sounds like you have a good routine that really works for you! That's all that matters
spyrogirl1
New member
@spyrogirl1 Exactly. This is counterproductive.
legatichristi
New member
@spyrogirl1 That comes from my personal experience of not liking working out for 3 months, then on the fourth month actually starting to like it. The rest of the results part comes from the wiki:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweight...d_routine#wiki_how_soon_will_i_see_results.3F
The goal was more to tell people to be patient with results - I see so many "two week shred" videos on youtube or ads for apps that promise to get you beach body ready in under a month with no equipment, and I wanted to kinda say "hey, pump the breaks, it's a marathon, take your time, be consistent, and trust the process".
I agree that this is a a tone-deaf post though that does the opposite of what I intended in a lot of ways. I wanted to make the case for picking out a professional-made routine like the RR, BWF Primer, or routine in the r/Fitness wiki, sticking with it for ~6 months, and trusting the process rather than focusing on the theory. I think the negative reactions to this post show that, maybe, what we don't need right now is another person throwing a bunch of theory at people new to fitness.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweight...d_routine#wiki_how_soon_will_i_see_results.3F
The goal was more to tell people to be patient with results - I see so many "two week shred" videos on youtube or ads for apps that promise to get you beach body ready in under a month with no equipment, and I wanted to kinda say "hey, pump the breaks, it's a marathon, take your time, be consistent, and trust the process".
I agree that this is a a tone-deaf post though that does the opposite of what I intended in a lot of ways. I wanted to make the case for picking out a professional-made routine like the RR, BWF Primer, or routine in the r/Fitness wiki, sticking with it for ~6 months, and trusting the process rather than focusing on the theory. I think the negative reactions to this post show that, maybe, what we don't need right now is another person throwing a bunch of theory at people new to fitness.
stevenherb
New member
@legatichristi Well I think you should be entitled to share your opinions, discussion is always productive.
legatichristi
New member
@dawn16 I agree. This is a tone deaf post in retrospect - I explained it more in a comment earlier, but it was born out of a frustration with the volume of homebrew routines on this sub, where I consistently am pointing people to the primer and RR. Unfortunately, that burnt-out mindset didn't produce a post near as worthwhile as I wanted it to. Hubris is a bitch, and I'm sorry for that.
@legatichristi Bioneer on youtube makes a good case for doing hundreds of push ups. Going to failure on rep hundred of push ups Isn't the different to going to failure on rep 5 of barbell bench press
legatichristi
New member
@dawn16 He does make a good case for doing a lot of pushups - I really like the bioneer, he's well researched and knows his stuff. I do think he falls into the mover trap of "you should do a lot of every type of training", not accounting that most people have non-fitness based lives. But, there's no denying that his videos are incredibly informative, use real science, and are overall really good. That being said, here's the exact quote from the middle of that video, that I think you're drawing from:
Which, to me, sounds more like "hey, in certain scenarios, you can supplement actual strength training with super high reps, and here's a ton of really good content on either end about other benefits of super high reps". It's a good video, but I don't think it reverses (or even tries to reverse) the idea of doing fewer reps to build strength.
I also think that, it's way easier to measure failure on rep 5 than rep 100. Way easier to keep track of form. Way easier to focus on muscle fatigue and not cardiovascular fatigue. Like... tons of powerlifters are acutely aware of their 1, 3, and 5 rep maxes. I don't know if being aware of your 100 rep max is truly possible outside of theory.
Which, to me, sounds more like "hey, in certain scenarios, you can supplement actual strength training with super high reps, and here's a ton of really good content on either end about other benefits of super high reps". It's a good video, but I don't think it reverses (or even tries to reverse) the idea of doing fewer reps to build strength.
I also think that, it's way easier to measure failure on rep 5 than rep 100. Way easier to keep track of form. Way easier to focus on muscle fatigue and not cardiovascular fatigue. Like... tons of powerlifters are acutely aware of their 1, 3, and 5 rep maxes. I don't know if being aware of your 100 rep max is truly possible outside of theory.
@legatichristi Yeah I wasn't trying to disprove you on anything I was just saying high rep exercises have their place.
Just look at ironwolf or prisoner exercises for example. But I agree 100% with everything you say I often point beginners towards the RR. It's what I've been doing the last couple years (my own version of it) and seen really good results
Just look at ironwolf or prisoner exercises for example. But I agree 100% with everything you say I often point beginners towards the RR. It's what I've been doing the last couple years (my own version of it) and seen really good results
legatichristi
New member
basketballfan
New member
@legatichristi But why supplement with very high reps of push-ups specifically? I mean, if you’re strapped for access to equipment, using push-up variants (like one-handed push-ups) and weight vests are far more efficient ways to plan for progression and will give more transferable gains. Training very high reps of push-ups will mostly make you very good at doing lots of push-ups.
christianchurches
New member
@legatichristi Honestly this post is very unnecessary but does strike some valid points. but does come across a little entitled even imo. no beginner routine is bad really, you cant expect people to perfect a hobby they barely even started.
Tl;DR biggest drive in progress is high volumes, consistency, variation and good nutrition and rest.
you can absolutely make your own program, no matter what experience or not, or have an inexperienced person make a program with you(altho thats probably variable). because simply the best way to make progress is by periodising, and its easier to stick to a program you made for yourself.
to add making your own program teaches you to think about routines, muscle groups, progressions/regressions etc etc. it shows you what to focus on as you seeing fly's in a program for example might make you feel about the shoulders etc where the program might have wanted you to focus on rhomboids and what not.
and the same goes for most of your points. if high rep is something you enjoy you can absolutely do high reps, and high reps can be a form of progressive overload. doing a pushup variation can work, but most pushup variation stimulate different muscle groups way more. for example a diamond pushup puts a lot more focus on triceps. variability and stuff like a weight vest is an easier way to overload. but higher reps is one too. it has its place, but depends on goals. just doing pushups isnt great for sure.
your strength building advice is way off imo tho. strenght is very subjective and depending on goals. just eating more in bulking isnt good, it will just get you fat. i agree dont overcomplicate diet but still just eating for the sake of 'bulk' isnt good. should just be a small excess in calories and still high in proteïn if your goal is to build muscle.
the way you should look at strength/high reps is basically 'can i do this exercise in a smarter/shorter way that adds the same overload or more?' if the answer is yes then do that. if no then look at it from a different way 'is there another variation of the exercises that i can split to hit various muscle groups while still getting to the same effect?' if that answer is yes do that, if no you're basically stuck to increasing reps or resistance (add weights)
in the end strength building is exhausting the muscles, eating adequate proteïn for repair and repeat. Arnold Schwarzenegger did a lot of high rep sets. doing 10x40kg lifts 400kg, but the guy doign a 1 RM of 80kg would just lift 80kg. the standard 3x6-12 is a good base, but its very basic. 5x10's for example will absolutely get you stronger.
same works for endurance. it should be trained for and embraced, depending on goals and within reason of course. being able to do something more often and longer means an increase in volume of training and therefore more effective workouts.
rest is good between workouts/muscle groups, no problem there. 1-3 minutes is fine, but longer too if you need it. shorter can be fine too for supersets for example.
I see diet as part of the progression, definitely dont overcomplicate things, try to stay around 1.4-2.2g/KG bodyweight.
1 quick reminder is that 7700 kcal doesnt equate to 1kg of bodyweight, part of growth is increasing vascular capacity, moisture etc etc. its just that 1kg of bodyfat is roughly 7700kcal. but removing that might also remove 100g of water weight.
just eat whole foods, add proteïn powder if unsure about getting adequate amounts out of your diet, track your weight every now and then (dont recommend everyday its a bit excessive imo).
but yeah, variety, consistency, volume, rest and enough diet is what matters.
Tl;DR biggest drive in progress is high volumes, consistency, variation and good nutrition and rest.
you can absolutely make your own program, no matter what experience or not, or have an inexperienced person make a program with you(altho thats probably variable). because simply the best way to make progress is by periodising, and its easier to stick to a program you made for yourself.
to add making your own program teaches you to think about routines, muscle groups, progressions/regressions etc etc. it shows you what to focus on as you seeing fly's in a program for example might make you feel about the shoulders etc where the program might have wanted you to focus on rhomboids and what not.
and the same goes for most of your points. if high rep is something you enjoy you can absolutely do high reps, and high reps can be a form of progressive overload. doing a pushup variation can work, but most pushup variation stimulate different muscle groups way more. for example a diamond pushup puts a lot more focus on triceps. variability and stuff like a weight vest is an easier way to overload. but higher reps is one too. it has its place, but depends on goals. just doing pushups isnt great for sure.
your strength building advice is way off imo tho. strenght is very subjective and depending on goals. just eating more in bulking isnt good, it will just get you fat. i agree dont overcomplicate diet but still just eating for the sake of 'bulk' isnt good. should just be a small excess in calories and still high in proteïn if your goal is to build muscle.
the way you should look at strength/high reps is basically 'can i do this exercise in a smarter/shorter way that adds the same overload or more?' if the answer is yes then do that. if no then look at it from a different way 'is there another variation of the exercises that i can split to hit various muscle groups while still getting to the same effect?' if that answer is yes do that, if no you're basically stuck to increasing reps or resistance (add weights)
in the end strength building is exhausting the muscles, eating adequate proteïn for repair and repeat. Arnold Schwarzenegger did a lot of high rep sets. doing 10x40kg lifts 400kg, but the guy doign a 1 RM of 80kg would just lift 80kg. the standard 3x6-12 is a good base, but its very basic. 5x10's for example will absolutely get you stronger.
same works for endurance. it should be trained for and embraced, depending on goals and within reason of course. being able to do something more often and longer means an increase in volume of training and therefore more effective workouts.
rest is good between workouts/muscle groups, no problem there. 1-3 minutes is fine, but longer too if you need it. shorter can be fine too for supersets for example.
I see diet as part of the progression, definitely dont overcomplicate things, try to stay around 1.4-2.2g/KG bodyweight.
1 quick reminder is that 7700 kcal doesnt equate to 1kg of bodyweight, part of growth is increasing vascular capacity, moisture etc etc. its just that 1kg of bodyfat is roughly 7700kcal. but removing that might also remove 100g of water weight.
just eat whole foods, add proteïn powder if unsure about getting adequate amounts out of your diet, track your weight every now and then (dont recommend everyday its a bit excessive imo).
but yeah, variety, consistency, volume, rest and enough diet is what matters.
legatichristi
New member
@christianchurches I don't disagree with almost anything you said in specific, but I would argue that most beginners don't know what periodization is, endurance vs strength, how to adequately fatigue muscles, what progressive overload is, what different muscle groups are, etc.
My argument is not "never adjust or adapt to your goals and only do 5x5 programs", it's "I have seen so many objectively terrible programs on this sub, and I wanted to review things that are obvious to intermediate lifters but are not understood at all by newbies". There's times and places for everything including stuff like high rep programs. But this post isn't telling Arnold, who was in his 20's, on PED's, and a Mr. Olympia winner in his prime he's wrong for doing high reps. It's telling John, who's 19 and never worked out before, wants the "tyler durden look", and does 200 pushup variations in his workout and refuses to use any equipment, that he's wrong.
My argument is not "never adjust or adapt to your goals and only do 5x5 programs", it's "I have seen so many objectively terrible programs on this sub, and I wanted to review things that are obvious to intermediate lifters but are not understood at all by newbies". There's times and places for everything including stuff like high rep programs. But this post isn't telling Arnold, who was in his 20's, on PED's, and a Mr. Olympia winner in his prime he's wrong for doing high reps. It's telling John, who's 19 and never worked out before, wants the "tyler durden look", and does 200 pushup variations in his workout and refuses to use any equipment, that he's wrong.
christianchurches
New member
@legatichristi
yeah thats fair. but thats probably why they come here and ask if their program is good, to try to reach that higher level of understanding. but honestly i havent really seen a beginner doing 100's of pushup variations with other stuff, and the ones that do probably dont really come looking for information or advice.
i think part of the problem is theres just so much information overload, like you said you have stuff like fitnessFAQ's, other youtubers, blogs, etc etc etc etc. they're all telling 1 thing, snippet, facet and finish their video/post/short with 'want to know more checkout my program that costs 100 USD per month'.
they're knowledgeable sure, but they make it complicated on purpose for that information overload so the average person just says sure i'll just make it easy and buy the program. their voice and opinions arent necessarily the best either.
i get what you're trying to say here really, a post some beginners might see and hopefully improve upon, but let me tell you as someone who coaches people in swimming and general strength around that, its very very hard to help someone to a higher understanding by starting with 'what you're doing is probably bad'
yeah thats fair. but thats probably why they come here and ask if their program is good, to try to reach that higher level of understanding. but honestly i havent really seen a beginner doing 100's of pushup variations with other stuff, and the ones that do probably dont really come looking for information or advice.
i think part of the problem is theres just so much information overload, like you said you have stuff like fitnessFAQ's, other youtubers, blogs, etc etc etc etc. they're all telling 1 thing, snippet, facet and finish their video/post/short with 'want to know more checkout my program that costs 100 USD per month'.
they're knowledgeable sure, but they make it complicated on purpose for that information overload so the average person just says sure i'll just make it easy and buy the program. their voice and opinions arent necessarily the best either.
i get what you're trying to say here really, a post some beginners might see and hopefully improve upon, but let me tell you as someone who coaches people in swimming and general strength around that, its very very hard to help someone to a higher understanding by starting with 'what you're doing is probably bad'
donna_urry
New member
@christianchurches Probably 80% of people doing hundreds of pushups aren't doing very good reps.