A response to the "Keto is not good for you mentally post"

[asha0210]

Hi All, I wanted to write a response to the Keto is not a good idea mentally post by @iceteezz and I didn't want it to get buried in all of the other comments in that thread. This gist of that article is that a Keto diet is bad for you because it affects your gut biome in a negative way.

The first issue with the article is that its a Mouse study. Mice aren't people. Rats and mice don't have human biomes. And animal studies rank really low in the Hierarchy of scientific evidence

But while we are looking at animal studies this review of the literature " ketone supplementation reduced anxiety-related behaviors in a rat model. In depression, Ketogenic Diet significantly reduced depression-like behaviors in rat and mice models in two controlled studies".

Just about every rat/mouse model we have, shows improved 'mood' and decreased 'anxiety' on a KD. You can read about them here

Interesting. What about humans? Well, you can trawl r/keto and search for "mood", or "depression". There are a huge number of positive stories. There's also a raft of positive looking brain related developments in this Psychiatric review, or just search Ketogenic diet mood.

This studyfound that while dieting, Mood was higher in the Keto diet group than the low fat group (but that mood increase was put down to decreased hunger). That is one of the main benefits as a fat loss tool.

Check out this: How the Ketogenic Diet helps with depression

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The reason I felt compelled to write this post is because of my own personal experience. I initially started a very low carb diet as an exercise experiment, after hearing an sports physiologist talk about it in in an interview. I found that I lost body fat (returned to my weight and composition that I had in my 20's then stabilized), but more importantly my mood vastly improved and I had a tonne more energy. I came for the fat loss, and stayed for the elevated mood.

I've also introduced quite a few friends who have found similar results. I've met nobody that ended up 'sadder' on a Keto diet. (actually, some people may have felt pretty sad for the first few days of carb withdrawl )

I would hate to think that a low grade article stopped anyone from giving it a go (if they were curious).

Anyway, feel free to ask any questions, or bring the debate. I've been Keto/low carb for 2 years+ and have tried to get as schooled up on it as I possibly could, because I've since become reasonably passionate about it.

I know I'm likely to get lots of questions/comments like "But it sucks for athletic performance". My first question would be, "Are you an ELITE athlete?" If you aren't, you'll be fine. If you are an elite athlete, why are you on r/fitness30plus? On Keto, I ran competitively (for my age) in my first ever half ironman, and completed my first trail ultra run. I lift weights each week and do normal active stuff. Low carb does not stop me from doing anything physically.

There are a heap of competitive athletes and teams using Keto and low carb as part of their training/off-season. The current fastest 100 miler (who runs each of his 100 miles faster than any of us can run ONE) rotates between carnivore, keto and low carb. See: Zac Bitter https://www.mensjournal.com/health-...n-record-holder-he-also-eats-almost-no-carbs/

This is also a good read on transitioning from a carb burner to a sugar burner: "How to become a Bonk proof triathlete"

This article is also a good primer on how diet affects Metabolic flexibility

Cheers,

AK

 

[loavesnphish]

@asha0210 The biggest problem with the study that was posted by that jackass was that IT WASN’T A KETO DIET BEING FED TO THE MICE!

I spent hours reading the paper that was used as source material for the posted article and not once was Keto mentioned. The mice were fed a high fat diet. High fat plus moderate to high carbs is not Keto.

Keto was mentioned in the article to generate clicks but had zero to do with the study.

Talk about bad-faith arguing.

 

[asha0210]

@loavesnphish Wow. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[getips]

@asha0210 Just another n=1, but for me eliminating carbs solved 4+ decades of crippling depression, among a host of other maladies. My opinion is that the only way to know if it is good for an indivudual's mental health is to try for one's self.

 

[mrs_rc]

@asha0210 As someone who has fought depression over the last 10 years, your post struck a chord with me and has piqued my interest. I'll be sure to so more research and hope to find that the KD is effective for me. Thanks for sharing your story.

 

[asha0210]

@mrs_rc Honestly, it was like a perpetual cloud evaporating from around me. Something I previously could only ever experience during exercise.

I'll share a message I got from a friend a few days ago, who is two months into his Keto diet...

"Honestly, I'm sitting here feeling like a f\*** retard. For years, I have put my weight gain down to laziness and depression, rather than the other way round. Feel like a different person.*

That was in response to him watching this which explains why removing sugars and carbs can (counter intuitively) make you feel like you have more energy/ why eating sugars and refined carbs can make you feel like crap. (Spoiler: It's the insulin)

Good luck to you

 

[vikingqueen]

@asha0210 If keto works for you, great, but the science shows it has a negative impact on endurance activity. Examine.com goes into detail (and links to the scientific articles) in this article: https://examine.com/nutrition/low-carbing-for-endurance/

 

[asha0210]

@vikingqueen There's a much better, and more scientific (and more up-to-date - 2017) review of the studies and evidence here:

Low-Carbohydrate-High-Fat Diet: Can it Help Exercise Performance? (warning: long)

They acknowledge that several months of adaption is required for all metabolic changes.

The summary is this:

Long-term LCHF diets appear to be safe and may even improve several metabolic risk factors for chronic diseases in the general population. LCHF diets provide a promising way to help control body weight and fat mass while maintaining lean body mass in athletes engaged in weight-sensitive sports. There is emerging evidence that LCHF diets could be beneficial, particularly for performance in ultra-endurance sports. Their effect on field-based sports that require repeated high-intensity activities is also promising. It appears that at least several months of adaptation to a LCHF diet are required for the metabolic changes and restoration of muscle glycogen to occur.

Also,

Long-term LCHF dietary intake may help control body weight and fat mass while maintaining lean body mass in athletes

That's 95% of r/fitness30plus right there

 

[vikingqueen]

@asha0210 That's interesting. Thanks for posting it.

 

[dawn16]

@asha0210 I think a better statement is that ‘keto is not mentally good for me’.
Others millage may vary

 

[dawn16]

@asha0210 My first assumption is that studies like the one linked at the top (“Keto is not a good idea mentally”) are compromised somehow, usually through funding, and I wish it were as easy as saying “the sugar industry paid for this” but that’s obviously cartoonish.

I did follow the thread from that study to look at the Declaration Of Interests section. One thread, the lead contact (C. Ronald Kahn) is a board member of Kaleido Biosciences, which gets funding from AstraZeneca, Bayer, Merck, and Nestle Health Science (“NHS”).

NHS supports research in obesity but it also has the obvious conflict of Nestle brands: a bunch of sugar-based snack foods. So the NHS webpage trumpets the usual line of the “sugar industry”:

As a caloric imbalance is the primary cause of obesity, correcting this imbalance may be the most effective way to address it. Both increasing activity (burning more calories) and reducing intake (eating fewer calories) can help restore a proper energy balance.

Basically, eat whatever you want, but make sure you burn more than you eat. I listened to a really good two-part CBC podcast where it was discussed how this line is used as part of the strategy of getting people to substitute sugar for fat.

 

[asha0210]

@dawn16

Basically, eat whatever you want, but make sure you burn more than you eat. ... getting people to substitute sugar for fat.

Thisis a really good explanation of why continuing to eat sugar and refined carbs cab be a real problem for calorie/weight control. I think Dr Lustig certainly exaggerates when he says it cannot be done, but it certainly is very difficult for most people because of the hormones outlined. Also, why low carb diets are so effective at managing hunger.

 

[fsmbin]

@asha0210 Lustig is a poor source for nutrition information.
http://anthonycolpo.com/sweet-stupi...truth-about-robert-lustigs-anti-sugar-claims/

 

[asha0210]

@fsmbin >Lustig is a poor source for nutrition information

Mmmmmkay.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lustig

Robert H. Lustig (born 1957) is an American pediatric endocrinologist. He is Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF), where he specializes in neuroendocrinology and childhood obesity. Lustig has authored 105 peer-reviewed articles and 65 reviews.[10] He is a former chair of the obesity task force of the Pediatric Endocrine Society, a member of the obesity task force of the Endocrine Society, and sits on the steering committee of the International Endocrine Alliance to Combat Obesity

Lustig was a co-author in 2009 of the American Heart Association's guideline on sugar intake

vs

http://anthonycolpo.com/ (personal trainer and health/fitness writer from Australia)

I especially enjoyed his scientific posts: Six Reasons Why Harley “Durianrider” Johnstone is an Evil, Worthless Prick and The Trolls: Still Proving My Books are Scientifically Rock Solid!

 

[chiril]

@asha0210 It seems hard to get sources of fat if you're lactose intolerant. I can't just eat nuts...

 

[dawn16]

@chiril The most common way I get my fats are from avocado and coconut oil as well as almond butter. Mind you, there are days I feel like I’m gonna turn into a damn coconut because I’ve had it so much but I’ve dropped around 30lbs in a month and a half (most is water weight, but still- it’s progress) and i feel really good.

 

[asha0210]

@chiril Get fat with your protein, eggs and cook veges with things like coconut oil and use olive oils with salads. Avocado is your best fatty fruit option

A quick search found this

But get your fats in with your protein - ground beef, pork belly, bacon, steak with all the fat on. You can get enough fat into your diet using meat alone, and plenty do.

 

[chiril]

@asha0210 Never thought about buying the fattier mince, there's always been such a push to think of the lean stuff as healthier.

 

[asha0210]

@chiril Yes. But that's where I get most of my fats from.

The world is slowly changing in regards to the old warnings about saturated fats.

This32252-3/abstract) 2017 study of 18 countries across five continents (summarized in this video) concluded:

High carbohydrate intake was associated with higher risk of total mortality, whereas total fat and individual types of fat were related to lower total mortality. Total fat and types of fat were not associated with cardiovascular disease, myocardial infarction, or cardiovascular disease mortality, whereas saturated fat had an inverse association with stroke. Global dietary guidelines should be reconsidered in light of these findings.

The person presenting the findings is one of the worlds leading cardiologists and was the world's second-most cited researcher in 2011.

I got all my blood work done before starting the Keto diet, and then tested at 3 months, 6 months, one year and two years. All health markers have improved, or stayed the same.

 

[allan252]

@chiril Coconut oil, lard, chicken with the skin on it, bacon, butter has like trace amounts of lactose