DEXA w/ photos and videos [5'4.5"/115lbs/25.8%]
- Thread starter ruky
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arisemydarling
New member
@ruky Respectfully, I disagree. You have a misunderstanding about beginner strength gains -- it is perfectly possible for a beginner to make strength gains during a cut; however, these are usually the result of CNS adaptation and improvements in technique, not of muscle growth.
I feel that recently there is an obsession around here with lowering body fat percentages, both for aesthetic and health reasons, with no attention paid to the importance of lean body mass in maintaining health. Lean body mass protects you from injury. Lean body mass allows you to perform the activities of daily living. Lean body mass is a hedged bet against trauma or illness you might face in the future. Lean body mass becomes harder and harder to maintain or gain as you age, and yet maintaining it is something that many people choose to put on the back burner.
My opinion is that your visceral fat poses a far less pressing health risk than your low lean body mass. If you were starting significantly overweight -- the kind of overweight that wears on your joints and disturbs your hormones -- then yes, I would probably agree with you.
It sounds like you had a really bad experience with "bulking" in terms of body image. That's not unusual and I sympathize. That said, that's an aesthetic issue, not a health issue. If someone is "skinny fat" at a healthy weight with low muscle mass and chooses to cut first, it's "okay," but it's not a decision that prioritizes health.
I feel that recently there is an obsession around here with lowering body fat percentages, both for aesthetic and health reasons, with no attention paid to the importance of lean body mass in maintaining health. Lean body mass protects you from injury. Lean body mass allows you to perform the activities of daily living. Lean body mass is a hedged bet against trauma or illness you might face in the future. Lean body mass becomes harder and harder to maintain or gain as you age, and yet maintaining it is something that many people choose to put on the back burner.
My opinion is that your visceral fat poses a far less pressing health risk than your low lean body mass. If you were starting significantly overweight -- the kind of overweight that wears on your joints and disturbs your hormones -- then yes, I would probably agree with you.
It sounds like you had a really bad experience with "bulking" in terms of body image. That's not unusual and I sympathize. That said, that's an aesthetic issue, not a health issue. If someone is "skinny fat" at a healthy weight with low muscle mass and chooses to cut first, it's "okay," but it's not a decision that prioritizes health.
@arisemydarling I don't think that the amount of lean body mass I have is too low.
I don't think that this will put me at risk in the future of daily living activities in the future.
I don't think that cutting first from skinny fat puts your health at risk.
You say 86g of LBM at 5'4" is low; what standards are you using for determining how much lean body mass a person should have for any height?
I don't think that this will put me at risk in the future of daily living activities in the future.
I don't think that cutting first from skinny fat puts your health at risk.
You say 86g of LBM at 5'4" is low; what standards are you using for determining how much lean body mass a person should have for any height?
@ruky Found this
Put your stats in and got a range of 83-102lbs as the average range for lean body mass for someone of your height.
Link doesn't seem to have sources so i'm unsure of where this formula comes from exactly and not going to bother tracking it down.
Otherwise can't really find anything specific to LBM.
Put your stats in and got a range of 83-102lbs as the average range for lean body mass for someone of your height.
Link doesn't seem to have sources so i'm unsure of where this formula comes from exactly and not going to bother tracking it down.
Otherwise can't really find anything specific to LBM.
amydoodles
New member
@ruky Thanks for bringing this up about standards for lean body mass. I'm curious about this too as this was a huge concern of redditors for my results too. However on page 2 of my readout it said I have 6.17 kg/m2 Relative Skeletal Muscle Index, which is over the recommended value of 5.45 for women. I'd love to find out about other published standards.
@amydoodles Tbh i think she is tripping about the lean body mass thing
@arisemydarling This is relevant to me. Can you please elaborate a bit on why muscle is always lost during a cut?
Not sure if this is the same, but I've been on a maintenance diet while still lifting. My lifts are going up, but very very slowly -- like, 5 lbs every 2-3 weeks. I feel stronger and can do more than before. But I'm also losing weight.
Am I losing lean mass, or just fat? I honestly can't tell b/c weight loss has been very slow -- I'm losing about 1 lb per month.
Not sure if this is the same, but I've been on a maintenance diet while still lifting. My lifts are going up, but very very slowly -- like, 5 lbs every 2-3 weeks. I feel stronger and can do more than before. But I'm also losing weight.
Am I losing lean mass, or just fat? I honestly can't tell b/c weight loss has been very slow -- I'm losing about 1 lb per month.
stereodanny
New member
@amw88 This is going to be long, so apologies in advance. Also, it looks like you're in the maintenance phase, so may not be as relevant as it's purely about cutting, but hopefully someone may find it helpful!
Answer:
First, if you're interested in learning more on cutting and muscle gain/loss, I highly recommend this guy's articles, as well as browsing r/fitness. They have a larger community and so have a bit more detailed answers on cutting and bulking, plus cite research that backs it up.
That being said, I'll take a shot at answering your question (based on my understanding). In terms of muscle loss during a cut, it depends on a lot of factors. Most important is your body fat percentage at the time of your cut, but also important is your level/type of activity during your cut, the level of cut that you're doing (e.g., 10%, 20%, etc.), and your macros that you eat while cutting. While I won't say that it's impossible to maintain all of your muscle while cutting, it's unlikely unless you are starting with a high body fat percentage, maintain an effective lifting regime while cutting, and keep up higher levels of protein in your diet.
The reason is, at a very high level, your body will naturally break down both muscle AND fat to supplement energy stores while you're dieting. Especially if you are already at a normal or lower body fat percentage and you're doing a more extreme cut, your body may even prioritize breaking down muscle over fat. The articles I linked should have the more scientific details on actual biology involved.
I like to think of it as the flip side of the sad bulking coin: all of the extra calories that you consume won't go to creating muscle, some will go to fat. There are things that you can do to minimize that, but it's unrealistic to expect that you won't lose any muscle during a cut or gain any fat during a bulk.
This is often why people talk about the importance of high protein on a cut, as well as why some folks go for a slower cut. Both of these can minimize muscle loss, while maximizing fat loss. The prevailing wisdom is that it's impossible to make muscle gains while on a cut (because you have no excess calories from which to build muscle). I prefer Lyle McDonald's explanation, which is that it's possible if you're an "overfat beginner" (his words), but unlikely otherwise.
For a beginner, though, you don't necessarily have to gain muscle to get stronger. If you are starting from a high body fat percent and have less muscle, you'll also have less muscle loss during your cut.
I know this is getting long, but if I had to give an end take-away, it would be: don't over-think it. It sounds like what you're doing is working for you and, unless it's been 1 lb. loss steady over more than 5-6 months, you might be able to attribute it to water fluctuation. If you're getting frustrated or curious, though, you may consider incorporating more protein into your diet and upping your calories a bit, and seeing what happens.
If you want more detailed answers on your specific situation, you could try asking on r/fitness (or this sub). You'll need to include more info, though, especially on your lifting routine and examples of your daily food intake.
Answer:
First, if you're interested in learning more on cutting and muscle gain/loss, I highly recommend this guy's articles, as well as browsing r/fitness. They have a larger community and so have a bit more detailed answers on cutting and bulking, plus cite research that backs it up.
That being said, I'll take a shot at answering your question (based on my understanding). In terms of muscle loss during a cut, it depends on a lot of factors. Most important is your body fat percentage at the time of your cut, but also important is your level/type of activity during your cut, the level of cut that you're doing (e.g., 10%, 20%, etc.), and your macros that you eat while cutting. While I won't say that it's impossible to maintain all of your muscle while cutting, it's unlikely unless you are starting with a high body fat percentage, maintain an effective lifting regime while cutting, and keep up higher levels of protein in your diet.
The reason is, at a very high level, your body will naturally break down both muscle AND fat to supplement energy stores while you're dieting. Especially if you are already at a normal or lower body fat percentage and you're doing a more extreme cut, your body may even prioritize breaking down muscle over fat. The articles I linked should have the more scientific details on actual biology involved.
I like to think of it as the flip side of the sad bulking coin: all of the extra calories that you consume won't go to creating muscle, some will go to fat. There are things that you can do to minimize that, but it's unrealistic to expect that you won't lose any muscle during a cut or gain any fat during a bulk.
This is often why people talk about the importance of high protein on a cut, as well as why some folks go for a slower cut. Both of these can minimize muscle loss, while maximizing fat loss. The prevailing wisdom is that it's impossible to make muscle gains while on a cut (because you have no excess calories from which to build muscle). I prefer Lyle McDonald's explanation, which is that it's possible if you're an "overfat beginner" (his words), but unlikely otherwise.
For a beginner, though, you don't necessarily have to gain muscle to get stronger. If you are starting from a high body fat percent and have less muscle, you'll also have less muscle loss during your cut.
I know this is getting long, but if I had to give an end take-away, it would be: don't over-think it. It sounds like what you're doing is working for you and, unless it's been 1 lb. loss steady over more than 5-6 months, you might be able to attribute it to water fluctuation. If you're getting frustrated or curious, though, you may consider incorporating more protein into your diet and upping your calories a bit, and seeing what happens.
If you want more detailed answers on your specific situation, you could try asking on r/fitness (or this sub). You'll need to include more info, though, especially on your lifting routine and examples of your daily food intake.
@ruky Thank you so much for sharing details in your DEXA scans.
I had asked a body fat question a couple months ago: do you look your bodyfat%
It seems most people who had DEXA scans say their DEXA BF% result is higher than other methods. And not just by a little, but as much as 5-10%.
Given all this information, I'm not sure what to believe. I think it may be best if anyone is serious about BF% to get tested using various different methods.
I had asked a body fat question a couple months ago: do you look your bodyfat%
It seems most people who had DEXA scans say their DEXA BF% result is higher than other methods. And not just by a little, but as much as 5-10%.
Given all this information, I'm not sure what to believe. I think it may be best if anyone is serious about BF% to get tested using various different methods.
amydoodles
New member
@amydoodles Glad the post helped, and thank YOU for sharing your DEXA scan to spark these two threads 
@amw88 The thing is like, why does it matter what % it is? Will it change your actions? For me, I wanted to know if it was healthy for me to lose fat. I went in guessing 25% for myself so I wasn't super surprised. Of the online calculators, when I tried it, the Navy method of measurement of BF was the most correct for me. I haven't done it since December, though.
Also another thing that I don't see mentioned much is that the brain is also fatty tissue. As you can see, I don't have much of a brain but if I had a more regularly fatty brain my BF% would be even higher.
Also another thing that I don't see mentioned much is that the brain is also fatty tissue. As you can see, I don't have much of a brain but if I had a more regularly fatty brain my BF% would be even higher.
@ruky 5'8", slim and long-limbed. At the time of the dexa I was 60kg (about 130lbs I think?). In terms of shape, I'm one of those annoying people who looks good in almost anything on the rack, so I guess like a larger model, since I'm not thin enough to be one? More pear shaped but slim waist, narrow shoulders, medium bust.
Edit: Im working on the shoulders
Edit: Im working on the shoulders
@ruky I agree with you on that. It's good to know whether we should lose fat and how much. Which is why the BF% is important in comparison to what is considered healthy for that particular test.
e.g. if DEXA results are a little higher than other tests, and "lean" is considered ~18%, then shouldn't "lean" for DEXA be considered around 23% ??
e.g. if DEXA results are a little higher than other tests, and "lean" is considered ~18%, then shouldn't "lean" for DEXA be considered around 23% ??
@amw88 One of the reasons is that the DEXA BF% includes the fat around your organs (visceral fat) and intramuscular fat (like the fat marbling in a steak) which are not very visual. "Visual fat" mainly refers to subcutaneous fat, or the fat between your muscles and the skin. Calipers tend to measure only subcutaneous fat, so that's what DEXA scans are much higher in %. Muscle definition and looking "cut" means that you have a low level of subcutaneous fat, but you could have more visceral fat or intramuscular fat.