Dr. Gregor says not to consume over 25 grams of soy protein per day. What are your thoughts?
- Thread starter ichthymom
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@vellaswin Boom, roasted!
beautifulsoul20
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eshwarbaul
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anonymous00000001
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@ichthymom I hate watching videos for information so I did a google search, which led to this page: https://nutritionfacts.org/blog/how-much-soy-is-too-much/
In that he says that eating too much soy protein could lead to higher levels of the hormone IGF-1 levels (Insulin-like Growth Factor 1). High levels of this hormone are associated with several cancers, included breast cancer and prostate cancer. Meat/egg/dairy eaters wind up with higher IGF-1 levels, but plant-based diets it tends to be less of a concern.
He states:
Based on google searches for studies there appears to be debate still, but many studies did show a rise with higher soy consumption.
According to google the standard servings are:
As long as you're not getting all your protein from soy you probably aren't eating more than that currently.
In that he says that eating too much soy protein could lead to higher levels of the hormone IGF-1 levels (Insulin-like Growth Factor 1). High levels of this hormone are associated with several cancers, included breast cancer and prostate cancer. Meat/egg/dairy eaters wind up with higher IGF-1 levels, but plant-based diets it tends to be less of a concern.
He states:
Based on google searches for studies there appears to be debate still, but many studies did show a rise with higher soy consumption.
According to google the standard servings are:
- 1/3 cup of tofu
- 1 cup soy milk
As long as you're not getting all your protein from soy you probably aren't eating more than that currently.
@anonymous00000001 Guess i’m dying of cancer then.
@anonymous00000001 Do u know how many grams approx is a cup of tofu? I love my tofu scrambles
anonymous00000001
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@cdlara381 For my tofu, and most other firm tofu blocks I've seen, a serving is usually 85g. That comes out to 1/4 of the tofu block, though block sizes varies so that might not be so helpful.
How many grams of protein that gives will depend on the firmness of the tofu, with the firmer giving considerably more protein than softer tofu.
The kind I eat is extra firm and gives 14g of protein per serving, whereas the same brand sells a soft tofu which only gives 4.5g of protein for the same serving size.
OP says Dr Gregor advised no more than 25g of soy protein per day, so that would be around 3 servings of medium firmness tofu.
How many grams of protein that gives will depend on the firmness of the tofu, with the firmer giving considerably more protein than softer tofu.
The kind I eat is extra firm and gives 14g of protein per serving, whereas the same brand sells a soft tofu which only gives 4.5g of protein for the same serving size.
OP says Dr Gregor advised no more than 25g of soy protein per day, so that would be around 3 servings of medium firmness tofu.
@anonymous00000001 Does anyone know if vital wheat gluten raises IGF-1 too or is that a better option than tofu?
anonymous00000001
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@cdlara381 From what I have read, soy is the only plant-based protein that creates any concerns in studies about the IGF-1 rates. I can't find why exactly this is, but mentions here and there indicate that it's due to the soy protein structure resembling animal protein structure more than other plants.
@anonymous00000001 Well that’s interesting, so basically seitan would be good but, most seitan in my store is loaded with sodium too and it’s not the tastiest thing without using oil, or idk how to cook it 
@cdlara381 I thought someone above commented that it's a similar situation with vital wheat gluten. And you should try making seitan yourself, you can do it!
https://www.noracooks.com/easy-seitan-recipe/#wprm-recipe-container-23584
https://www.noracooks.com/easy-seitan-recipe/#wprm-recipe-container-23584
@cdlara381 That's what someone else said, I have no idea but I'm going to look into it. I'm kind of leaning into not caring though lol I've already sacrificed so much these last 8 years
@anonymous00000001 My 1/3 of tofu is 125g and it offers 22.4g of tofu per 1/3 of block (one serve) it’s high protein tofu
anonymous00000001
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@cdlara381 Would you use about that much to make up your tofu scramble?
If you are worried about excess soy but still want to enjoy tofu, you could make tofu from an alternative legume. It's generally soybean but it doesn't have to be. You can make it at home really easily from virtually any legume, from split peas to lentils to chickpeas.
If you are worried about excess soy but still want to enjoy tofu, you could make tofu from an alternative legume. It's generally soybean but it doesn't have to be. You can make it at home really easily from virtually any legume, from split peas to lentils to chickpeas.
@anonymous00000001 I would sometimes use twice that amount, 1/3 just makes so little… but now I’m a bit worried so maybe I just stick to 1/3 block and use potato pieces and spinach and tomatoes to make it more rich
ivorydrops
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@ichthymom Individual voices are misleading. Mechanistic arguments are misleading. You put the two together...
People can pump out bullshit faster than anyone who knows what they're talking about will have energy to go into detail about it. It's the same thing any time a thread is titled "X person says Y behavior gets Z outcome. What do you think?" You can ask, curiosity is a good thing, but the thing we have to get to in these discussions is how we would know or not beyond individual opinions. For what it's worth, Greger's credentials seem legit, but his references are to his own videos. He seems to be obfuscating his sources rather than clarifying what supports his claims - although I appreciate other people like /u/syslolologist and r/ReynTime for digging up the actual study and its conclusions.
The ideal way to find out whether high soy intake increases risk of cancer would be a big, longitudinal meta-analysis either looking at extremely high vs. low or no intake, or stratifying by intake and coming up with a model that predicts risk based on exactly how much we're talking about, with cancer risk (total or specific) as the outcome. Elevated IGF-1 over time is to my knowledge pretty well associated both with growth in resistance training, and lesser known, with physiological (i.e. beneficial) cardiac hypertrophy in endurance training, but is also associated with increased mortality. Even taking it as a given that 25g/day is the upper limit before IGF-1 is elevated to adverse levels though, there are still multiple possible outcomes:
Info contradicting me would be great, but from what I've seen, the studies that do look at these outcomes have yet to show increased mortality. For example:
Soy, Soy Isoflavones, and Protein Intake in Relation to Mortality from All Causes, Cancers, and Cardiovascular Diseases: A Systematic Review and Dose-Response Meta-Analysis of Prospective Cohort Studies
Intake of Soy, Soy Isoflavones and Soy Protein and Risk of Cancer Incidence and Mortality
Soy Product Consumption and the Risk of Cancer: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Observational Studies
More in a sub-comment.
People can pump out bullshit faster than anyone who knows what they're talking about will have energy to go into detail about it. It's the same thing any time a thread is titled "X person says Y behavior gets Z outcome. What do you think?" You can ask, curiosity is a good thing, but the thing we have to get to in these discussions is how we would know or not beyond individual opinions. For what it's worth, Greger's credentials seem legit, but his references are to his own videos. He seems to be obfuscating his sources rather than clarifying what supports his claims - although I appreciate other people like /u/syslolologist and r/ReynTime for digging up the actual study and its conclusions.
The ideal way to find out whether high soy intake increases risk of cancer would be a big, longitudinal meta-analysis either looking at extremely high vs. low or no intake, or stratifying by intake and coming up with a model that predicts risk based on exactly how much we're talking about, with cancer risk (total or specific) as the outcome. Elevated IGF-1 over time is to my knowledge pretty well associated both with growth in resistance training, and lesser known, with physiological (i.e. beneficial) cardiac hypertrophy in endurance training, but is also associated with increased mortality. Even taking it as a given that 25g/day is the upper limit before IGF-1 is elevated to adverse levels though, there are still multiple possible outcomes:
- Other effects besides IGF-1 with high intakes lead to further increases in mortality.
- There's elevated mortality with high intake and IGF-1 is the primary or sole identifiable cause.
- There's no measurable impact on mortality even though elevated IGF-1 would suggest there would be.
- High intake is a net benefit even if elevated IGF-1 suggests there wouldn't be.
Info contradicting me would be great, but from what I've seen, the studies that do look at these outcomes have yet to show increased mortality. For example:
Soy, Soy Isoflavones, and Protein Intake in Relation to Mortality from All Causes, Cancers, and Cardiovascular Diseases: A Systematic Review and Dose-Response Meta-Analysis of Prospective Cohort Studies
Intake of Soy, Soy Isoflavones and Soy Protein and Risk of Cancer Incidence and Mortality
Soy Product Consumption and the Risk of Cancer: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Observational Studies
More in a sub-comment.