Dr. Mike on male/female training differences

[patsy_cline_fan]

I found this video from Dr. Mike/Renaissance Periodization on differences in training for men and women. I know I've wondered about programming, as basically I do programs aimed at men (and not necessarily natty men) and I wonder if I would get better results if someone more experienced than me adapted these programs for (natty) women.

Why Men and Women MUST Train Differently

I know there are some dedicated lifters here, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[djstav]

@patsy_cline_fan What's natty?

 

[patsy_cline_fan]

@djstav Natural. Not on performance enhancing drugs. People on PEDs recover faster and can handle more volume, so their training protocols will reflect that. Other commenters are correct that once you're at the intermediate stage, you should be able to adjust elements of your own programming to fit your goals and recovery, but I still think expectations are skewed by PEDs in lifting.

 

[basilisk06]

@patsy_cline_fan i knew dr shrek couldn't get through this without doing a 'men and females' and indeed he couldn't. he also addressed the whole video to men who train with women, the potential for female viewers was ignored.

but the notes on volume track with me. i've moved to full body routines because through trial and error i've discovered no down side. playing with the order of exercises or splitting things over different days doesn't seem to effect my performance. and i generally need 5-6 sets sometimes with an extra credit set of negatives to gas a muscle.

but the shorter rest times does not apply to me. i physically lose my strength and mentally lose my focus without a 2 minute rest.

recovery and deloading i don't feel experienced enough to comment on.

 

[libertas]

@basilisk06 Could you please share full body routine if you don't mind?

 

[billbennet]

@patsy_cline_fan What I got from an interview done by Jeff Nippard regarding women and menstrual phases as well as Dr Mike is that generally speaking (baring the menstrual stuff) women recover faster between sets and days. So essentially volume and intensity can be far higher than the men. Will Tennyson, who is incredibly conditioned, has a video of trying to keep up with a female IFBB pro on leg day.

I do not think she is natural by any stretch of the imagination, but the key take away is how quickly her recovery is. Women need about 25-50% less recovery time between sets and one less day after high intensity training.

I’ve just incorporated this into my programming.

 

[justaguy43]

@billbennet Do they know why women tend to recover faster than men on average? My trainer told me something similar but wasn’t familiar with the why. Is it hormonal?

 

[dynamitex]

@justaguy43 Here are two great articles:

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/strength-training-women/

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/gender-differences-in-training-and-diet/

 

[patsy_cline_fan]

@dynamitex Perfect. Thank you. If there was an "Edit Post" option I would add these to the OP.

 

[dynamitex]

@patsy_cline_fan There is an edit post option

 

[patsy_cline_fan]

@dynamitex I don't know why there isn't one on this post. It might be sub rule.

 

[camo320]

@justaguy43 Women lift less weight than men, even more when taking into consideration bodyweight. So lightweight women can recover the quickest (typically) because they lift much less absolute weight than a heavyweight male.

As a broad example:

The average untrained man might start around 135lbs bench, whereas the average untrained woman might start around 65lbs bench.

The average elite man might bench around 300-400lbs, whereas the average elite woman might bench around 200-300lbs.

 

[dynamitex]

@camo320

Second, women may recover from training a bit faster than men (one, two, three). When I’ve mentioned this in the past, the counterargument I typically hear is that women don’t create as much force, so of course their muscles won’t sustain as much damage, and will therefore recover faster. However, that doesn’t make much sense when you think about it. For starters, I’m not aware of any evidence showing that people who are stronger or more muscular at baseline experience more muscle damage, more soreness, or larger/longer performance decrements than people who are weaker or less muscular, all else being equal. More importantly, what each of your muscle fibers “feel” is the tension on that specific fiber; the contractile force of the entire muscle shouldn’t matter, as long as each fiber is being recruited to a similar degree and experiencing a similar amount of tension. I think the more likely explanation is that estrogen may exert a protective effect on muscle, limiting damage and potentially accelerating repair.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/strength-training-women/

 

[camo320]

@dynamitex Fatigue and recovery are not just affected by muscle damage or soreness. Things like outside life stress, nutrition, total training tonnage, and leverages all affect the total amount of volume and intensity someone can tolerate.

There is a reason why even between women, lightweight women can typically handle more intensity and volume than heavyweight women.

 

[patsy_cline_fan]

@camo320 I'm not sure why you're fighting the conclusions of the Stronger by Science articles.

 

[camo320]

@patsy_cline_fan Hypertrophy tunnel vision.

If you think 300lb heavyweight men squatting 700+ can recover from squatting the same as 100lb women squatting 300+ then there is something missing here.

 

[dynamitex]

@camo320 I'm not sure what you're confused about. From the SBS paragraph:

When I’ve mentioned this in the past, the counterargument I typically hear is that women don’t create as much force, so of course their muscles won’t sustain as much damage, and will therefore recover faster.

To make it even simpler: it's the counterpoint to what you said.

 

[camo320]

@dynamitex I'm talking about nervous system fatigue, not muscular damage. I agree, women and men produce the same force and experience the same "muscular damage"

 

[patsy_cline_fan]

@camo320 Hmm. This makes it sound like you didn't read the articles.

 

[camo320]

@patsy_cline_fan I read that paragraph like 4 times. Guess I'm stupid.