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Dr. Mike on male/female training differences
- Thread starter patsy_cline_fan
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- female fitness
melodyonpoint
New member
@intermediary Have you watched the video? It’s actually really great.
soulsearcher57
New member
@patsy_cline_fan I thought it was interesting that he didn't mention menstrual phases at all or how those impact strength and energy. I feel like most of what he touched on, while potentially true, is only useful for people looking to optimize up from elite level training.
By contrast, I think knowledge of how your cycle may impact your training (not that you need to change anything necessarily, just be aware of it) will impact most women who have a cycle as they train, regardless of the style or intensity of training. And in speaking with other women it seems like a shocking number of women, particularly those who are newer to fitness, have no idea that they will naturally have ebbs and flows with their cycle in terms of endurance and strength and even how ligamentally lax they are.
EDITED TO CLARIFY: I'm not very "with it" on internet trends but I'm gathering I stepped in something unsavory. I had no idea people online were telling women to stop training during their cycle or to plan all their training around their cycles. IDK what fresh hell of sports-specific misogyny that is but, uh, I'm not with those people. I'm a lifelong athlete and have never trained around my cycle, and I think that's totally absurd. It's not that big of a deal, at all, especially if you are relatively intense.
I only brought up cycles because it was funny (to me) that in a video about potential female training issues, and allll the slight differences between training men and women, there was no mention of menstrual cycles, which can impact how some women experience working out (especially if they have other issues in that arena and/or are beginners to fitness).
I hope this makes sense. A delicate flower I am not!
By contrast, I think knowledge of how your cycle may impact your training (not that you need to change anything necessarily, just be aware of it) will impact most women who have a cycle as they train, regardless of the style or intensity of training. And in speaking with other women it seems like a shocking number of women, particularly those who are newer to fitness, have no idea that they will naturally have ebbs and flows with their cycle in terms of endurance and strength and even how ligamentally lax they are.
EDITED TO CLARIFY: I'm not very "with it" on internet trends but I'm gathering I stepped in something unsavory. I had no idea people online were telling women to stop training during their cycle or to plan all their training around their cycles. IDK what fresh hell of sports-specific misogyny that is but, uh, I'm not with those people. I'm a lifelong athlete and have never trained around my cycle, and I think that's totally absurd. It's not that big of a deal, at all, especially if you are relatively intense.
I only brought up cycles because it was funny (to me) that in a video about potential female training issues, and allll the slight differences between training men and women, there was no mention of menstrual cycles, which can impact how some women experience working out (especially if they have other issues in that arena and/or are beginners to fitness).
I hope this makes sense. A delicate flower I am not!
soulsearcher57
New member
@nathan2018 I'm not either. I don't do any cycle-based training. I think my post was unclear, sorry.
papabear4811
New member
@soulsearcher57 I think at higher levels women care less about training around their cycles though. Because let's be real, your competition schedule does not care what phase you're in - why should your training? Awareness is a good thing just for mindfulness, but it's not like your sports match, powerlifting meet, etc. is going to put an asterisk next to your 3rd place medal describing the physiological reason you weren't at peak performance that day, and you should be training to be able to compete, so that means still being able to put in the work on days where your body isn't necessarily in its ideal state to do so barring injury.
Do we think Simone Biles is like "I'm on my luteal phase this week, better keep it to light stretching."? That's the kind of thinking that influencers do to convince women new to fitness that they have some sort of special sauce to sell them something.
Do we think Simone Biles is like "I'm on my luteal phase this week, better keep it to light stretching."? That's the kind of thinking that influencers do to convince women new to fitness that they have some sort of special sauce to sell them something.
soulsearcher57
New member
@papabear4811 I agree. That's why I think it's mostly useful information for people new to physical activity, like those who were previously sedentary. Lots of people are easily discouraged and if they suddenly feel weaker in the gym, and have no idea why, they might think they're doing something wrong. I think the newer someone is to fitness the more sensitive they are to all types of discomfort so a bit of explanation that not every workout will be your absolute best can be reassuring.
I don't personally do anything different around my cycles, training wise. I only mentioned it because it's a tad weird for it to go unmentioned in a video about male/female training differences.
I don't personally do anything different around my cycles, training wise. I only mentioned it because it's a tad weird for it to go unmentioned in a video about male/female training differences.
@soulsearcher57 I think part of the problem with using menstrual phase is that you can't do it generally, only person by person. For example, some women feel awesome and powerful on their periods, others feel like they have no energy.
100 percent agree that word needs to get out on how much your cycle impacts things.
100 percent agree that word needs to get out on how much your cycle impacts things.
@soulsearcher57 I was about to cringe at this comment until thankfully I read further and found some very sane and reasonable takes. I’ve seen too many instagram posts encouraging women to basically stop lifting and switch to yoga or something light instead of lifting at various phases of their cycle. Which I think is largely unnecessary unless you have some sort of condition or life event that makes it necessary. I don’t see how women who strength train or athletically train seriously can make any progress in their fitness if they’re constantly switching things up every month. Plus. I think it generally promotes this false belief that women are somehow significantly weaker and incapable during certain hormonal fluctuations, when most of the time the difference is small.
That being said I think your points are very fair. On period days that I feel pain or extreme fatigue I tend to take my lifting easier. But I would do such a thing if I were ill or had some other factor preventing me from going hard for strength, mobility, and athletic performance gains anyway
That being said I think your points are very fair. On period days that I feel pain or extreme fatigue I tend to take my lifting easier. But I would do such a thing if I were ill or had some other factor preventing me from going hard for strength, mobility, and athletic performance gains anyway
soulsearcher57
New member
giathinhpool
New member
@soulsearcher57 Thank you both for expressing my unuttered thoughts.
@patsy_cline_fan Huge thing you need to know for context: almost everything he points out is true of the general population of men/women who show up to a gym, not of inherent differences between male and female bodies.
For example, women can often do more reps at a higher % of 1RM. A big factor here is that women tend to have done more cardio (and/or high rep training) before getting into strength training. Aerobic fitness translates pretty directly into being better at rep work. Men who do a lot of cardio or high-rep work tend to develop this same ability as well.
A lot of the other factors he names relate to women tending to be more inexperienced at lifting. If you look around an average weight room, a lot of the women will have started training in the last 5 years or so. A lot of the men will be like "idk I started lifting in high school, been doing it forever." That difference in experience level accounts for a lot of the "differences" in Dr. Mike's video. For example, women get less "beat up" by higher intensity, but because they are newer to the gym they are lifting less weight and thus taking less of a hit to fatigue.
Finally, there's body size. A lot of the things that Dr. Mike says are more true of women, are also just true of people with smaller bodies. A small woman can recover faster between sets than a large man, but a small man would also recover faster between sets than a large man. That's body size, not (just) gender.
Dr. Mike himself points out in the last slide (lol) that he's basing his observations on population averages. Again: this is what you tend to see in groups, as a result of many factors. And the three factors I named--training experience, body size, and prior experience with cardio--account for most of the variation in most of the "differences" he names.
Finally: it's hilarious that the clickbait title is "men and women MUST train differently" but his own company's "male physique" and "female physique" programs are 99% identical.
For example, women can often do more reps at a higher % of 1RM. A big factor here is that women tend to have done more cardio (and/or high rep training) before getting into strength training. Aerobic fitness translates pretty directly into being better at rep work. Men who do a lot of cardio or high-rep work tend to develop this same ability as well.
A lot of the other factors he names relate to women tending to be more inexperienced at lifting. If you look around an average weight room, a lot of the women will have started training in the last 5 years or so. A lot of the men will be like "idk I started lifting in high school, been doing it forever." That difference in experience level accounts for a lot of the "differences" in Dr. Mike's video. For example, women get less "beat up" by higher intensity, but because they are newer to the gym they are lifting less weight and thus taking less of a hit to fatigue.
Finally, there's body size. A lot of the things that Dr. Mike says are more true of women, are also just true of people with smaller bodies. A small woman can recover faster between sets than a large man, but a small man would also recover faster between sets than a large man. That's body size, not (just) gender.
Dr. Mike himself points out in the last slide (lol) that he's basing his observations on population averages. Again: this is what you tend to see in groups, as a result of many factors. And the three factors I named--training experience, body size, and prior experience with cardio--account for most of the variation in most of the "differences" he names.
Finally: it's hilarious that the clickbait title is "men and women MUST train differently" but his own company's "male physique" and "female physique" programs are 99% identical.
@anon103
thank you for making me feel slightly better about not fitting within these trends. I'm closer to the size of the average man vs. the average woman, plus I'm trying to scrape together some semblance of cardiovascular health after years of neglect and chronic fatigue. so I'm feeling a bit left out with the "yeah woman can train way more than men!" "we don't need to rest as long!" "we can handle higher volume and intensity!" comments here. it's like I've discovered a whole new way that I'm bad at being a woman lolsob.
A big factor here is that women tend to have done more cardio (and/or high rep training) before getting into strength training. Aerobic fitness translates pretty directly into being better at rep work
A small woman can recover faster between sets than a large man, but a small man would also recover faster between sets than a large man
thank you for making me feel slightly better about not fitting within these trends. I'm closer to the size of the average man vs. the average woman, plus I'm trying to scrape together some semblance of cardiovascular health after years of neglect and chronic fatigue. so I'm feeling a bit left out with the "yeah woman can train way more than men!" "we don't need to rest as long!" "we can handle higher volume and intensity!" comments here. it's like I've discovered a whole new way that I'm bad at being a woman lolsob.
chriatopher
New member
patsy_cline_fan
New member
@anon103
Ha! Good catch.
Finally: it's hilarious that the clickbait title is "men and women MUST train differently" but his own company's "male physique" and "female physique" programs are 99% identical.
Ha! Good catch.
@patsy_cline_fan Thanks for sharing this video, I enjoyed it and felt it rang true. It made me curious about how I’m interpreting fatigue during a set and whether I really am pushing myself to failure. I’ll definitely be more intentional about doing reps to failure (although I already thought I was- so this will be a fun checking-in day at the gym for me).
@patsy_cline_fan This is true for me. When my husband and I do powerlifting programs together, especially the long, high volumes, I'm having a beautiful time ramping up in energy as he's struggling. It makes some sense, since the stress on my joints/tendons is far less overall even at the same relative percentages despite us being roughly the same strength level by our respective weight classes.
@patsy_cline_fan First - I do not like that guy at all. The sense of humor does not jive with me some other videos of his where he is making fun of a PT because they have an accent (they are not native english speakers. I am not either. So funny to make fun of people's accents when they are speaking a foreign language!). Also, his mindset of results and building visible muscle not a mindset I click with.
I saw the video and some of the observations do ring true, but without sources it is impossible to judge accurately particularly on the ones which do not jibe with my own personal experience. Without sources, attribution or more explanation it's really not educational or scientific no matter how serious the youtuber wants to make himself seem.
I saw the video and some of the observations do ring true, but without sources it is impossible to judge accurately particularly on the ones which do not jibe with my own personal experience. Without sources, attribution or more explanation it's really not educational or scientific no matter how serious the youtuber wants to make himself seem.
forgivenkali
New member
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