Good ways to build work capacity for bodybuilding?

[trulea]

@jamierite74 Fair enough. It's something that happened to me though. I didn't have enough energy but adjusted my calorie intake and that worked.
I do a high bpm 10k once a week for my cardio but used to do 2 x 3mile runs.

 

[bronsontaur]

@jamierite74 Work up to jogging 2 to 3 miles, 2 to 3 times a week.

Superset and giant sets everywhere you can.

Start working more in the 10 to 15 rep range.

High rep squats.

 

[jamierite74]

@bronsontaur Definitely thinking about the 2nd and 3rd ones after reading this thread. Hard compound sets in the 10-15 range murder me which probably means thats what I need more of. And now that I joined a 2nd gym (which is always empty unlike my other one) supersets are a possibility. Rest between sets of each muscle stays the same but less rest between exercises, sounds like a great idea. I just hate leaving weights unattended lol. Running gives me concerns bc of the high impact stress on the joints, and recovering from it coupled with lifting. Maybe i could once a week and then bike, eliptical, or play a sport another

 

[ashleylovesjesus]

@jamierite74 Check out Wenning warmups on youtube. It's doing 2-3 movements with light weight for reps, specific to your lift that day. For chest you can do very light cable press, tricep pushdown and battle ropes for 30 reps/30 seconds like 3-5 times with no rest. This will get you super warmed up for your liffs that day and also increase work capacity.

 

[trumpeter2]

@jamierite74 About 10 min stationary bike 3x per week is enough for lifting demands.

 

[jamierite74]

@trumpeter2 That seems simple enough. I assume at an intensity to actually get the heart pumping to cause a positive adaptation. Think theres an advantage to including other types of modalities as well (run, bike, play a sport, etc)

 

[trustinghim2015]

@jamierite74 Barbel or dumbbelll complexes done as in place of cardio.

I love and hate them.

 

[jamierite74]

@trustinghim2015 I could be wrong but this idea gives me some concerns b/c I feel like itll interfere with my recovery from my real training sessions. Since it could almost be considered junk vol. And more standard forms of cardio (bike, run, swim, elliptical, play a sport) wont interfere as much.

 

[trustinghim2015]

@jamierite74 Maybe? I find they don't interfere with my recovery, and only do them maybe twice a week. The weight on the bar shouldn't be heavy at all, otherwise you would never finish them. I kinda view them as technical practice mixed with cardio.

 

[needheaven]

@jamierite74 Running

Also drop the weight a bit and prioritize volume at least for short periods of time, doing a bit MORE volume than your goal is. This will allow you to do slightly reduce volume as you get back to normal weight but still be at the desired volume level you want.

Really it comes down to doing too many things at once, if you are pushing heavy weight/intensity the volume is going to suffer and its hard to get better at it without prioritizing over something else.

 

[jamierite74]

@needheaven Ok thanks. Ill admit I rarely change training variables like volume. Once im at a certain amount i keep it stagnant forever. I only do 6-8 sets per muscle per week right now but each set is high intensity.

As for the running I have some concerns with it. The high impact joint stress and then that affecting lifting recovery. Maybe i could run once a week and do something morr joint friendly another day (bike, swim, elliptical, play a sport, etc)

 

[needheaven]

@jamierite74 Cycling volume is common with powerlifting since there are times when they need to focus on heavy low volume work which makes other parts of training suffer, they make up for this by doing higher volume parts of the year almost as a conditioning type work. They don't just add volume or do things to build work capacity slowly, its just a complete switch to higher volume with however low the weight needs to be (usually too light to start then slowly add back).

 

[purposedgrace]

@jamierite74 you need to slowly increase volume. Maybe add 2 sets every 6 months. If you get more advanced you need more volume but also need to deload more frequently. So taking a deload after 4 weeks of high volume training is normal.

Also dont panic if you get weaker on high volume. Listen to your body but keep going. There is a huge difference in performance with lower and higher volume in advanced lifters. If you train extreme low volume under 10 sets you will never have the same strength with the right (or higher) amount of volume on your level of advancedment. With low volume you seem to be always recovered but never get real progress. With high volume you will loose some strength first, but you get progress again after a few months of training.

Dont do low volume ego lifting. That is what low-volume for advanced lifters is. Nothing more. You got the repeated bout effect from years of lifting. You dont get more stimulus just because you have more muscle damage. The body cannot differ between 60 kg or 120 kg. Do some more volume and sacrifice some strength (5 kg in most cases).

 

[jamierite74]

@purposedgrace You do have me questioning my volume relative to my experience BUT I feel like the 'high volume for experienced lifters' concept is a little overblown. Ive been training 15 years and the most volume Ive ever done in a week per muscle was 12 sets (controlled but hard lifting with a couple reps in the tank). I never understood how people could handle more and chalked it up to them having lackluster intensity (I believe the majority of lifters lack sufficient intensity). I mightve tried 14 once and just couldnt do it. Sessions absolutely zapped me. Currently Im back to my roots doing 6-8 sets/muscle/wk but closer to failure (last rep is slow and i know ill fail the next rep). I might do 14 total hard sets a session and it still takes a lot out of me. Also the theory is that as you become more advanced you need to do more sets per week but I might even argue the opposite to be true. 1) When youre more experienced you get more out of each set (higher stimulus) since youre more skilled at it 2) When youre more experienced youll be using heavier loads which means more to recover from. Theres plenty of examples out there of some of the best natural bodybuilders in the world on low volume (and high intensity), Ben Howard and a lot of the UK scene comes to mind. From my years lifting and following lifting Id almost say the ideal way is to chase those "physique changing loads" with low to moderates volumes in the 6-12 rep range or what have you (and controlled form). Muscle is a byproduct of strength. Every silver era elite natural physique was a powerhouse. But at the same time you have others on higher volumes while still doing hard sets like 2 of my fav natural lifters right now (Hersyovac and Geoffrey Verity Schofeld). Theyre able to recover from this work so maybe its the work capacity?

Now maybe I feel this way b/c I have mediocre work capacity? Sure I look lean but I dont do strenuous cardiovascular specific work that gets the heart pumping like I did in my early years. I feel a little zapped from a few exercises some days. If I go in the gym and do RDLs followed by leg press, Im zonked out lol. My rep strength sucks (anything over 12)

 

[purposedgrace]

@jamierite74 You should always train with high intensity of effort (rir 0 to 2). This is possible even with high volume. I would consider myself an advanced lifter and currently I am doing 18 to 22 sets per muscle group and getting some gains again. Some days I feel weak and totally wrecked but you have to trust the process and look over your training over a longer amount of time.

If you are in a calorie surplus and you are not making gains it is 95% of the time because of not doing enough volume. I would not look at those examples because Ben Howard is clearly a very genetic gifted lifter and those people do not need as much volume compared to low responders to training. You also have to realize that all this HIT vs. Volume is just to sell you new programms and ideas to make money every year. Thats why all these "scientific sources" made the switch to lower volume because it is easier to sell to a mainstream audience.

The stimulus does not change when you get more advanced. This makes no sense. Your body does not know what weight is on the bar. The system for detecting mechanical tension can only detect the relative mechanical tension which your muscles are put under. 60kg as 8rm has the same stimulus as 120 kg as an 8 rm with more muscle mass. You get more muscle damage for sure. But this is not even protein breakdown but other stuff like creatine kinasis which does not create any stimulus.

Cardio can certainly help with increasing work capacity. Doing some LISS-Sessions is a good idea especially if you are doing low volume with low weekly activity. Because you are not doing enough to be healthy. And one of the best advice I can give you is not overthink what amount of volume you should do or reading up the optimal volume everyday or posting volume questions because you are giving yourself a nocebo. 6 to 8 Sets is peaking. You can most likely do more than that. You are just doing bodybuilding. There footballers who are doing more volume and are stronger than those natural bodybuilders. They train 8 hours everyday. In most cases those recovery issues are only in your head. Do deloads every 3 to 6 weeks. 3 weeks on and one off is better than doing 10 weeks of extreme low volume.

You could also choose exercises with better SFR and in the case of RDLs start with leg curls so you dont need to use that much weight for the exercise.

 

[jamierite74]

@purposedgrace Thanks for the response. Definitely have me considering trying to add a couple sets here n there to see how I manage again. I wanna keep this 0-1 RIR intensity b/c I feel its important.

And my plan to add work capacity is:

1) Some cardiovascular work to get the heart pumping (bike, run, elliptical, play a sport, etc)

2) Shorten rest times a bit. Convinced by people ITT the benefits. I know I take longer than I should which probably hurts volume totals too

3) Do some compound work in higher rep ranges (12-15+)

4) MAYBE do some antagonistic sets w/ shorter rest. So instead of [bench (3min rest) bench] itd be [bench (1min rest) row (1min rest) bench, etc]. Theorizing an Arnold Split doing this daily, sounds efficient.

Back to the intensity vs volume thing. This is purely anecdotal evidence but I feel like Ive noticed (both on myself and others) a stronger correlation on the "striving for heavier loads" side of things. I could list many examples but Ill just give a few that come to mind. I 100% realize I could be wrong here but this is the trend Ive noticed

-In my first 5 years of training I did lower volumes and had higher intensity than all my friends. My physique blew past them, and I had some impressive feats of strength for my level (3 plate dip and pull ups for 8+ reps). Squat was my weakest lift and legs were my weakest body part. Worth noting I started w/ a high work capacity from lots of push ups, pull ups, sit ups, running, etc.

-My favorite physique in any gym ive been to is a guy whos like 5'7 155-160. Lean/dense as hell with lots of muscle on his frame. Hes a borderline ego lifter, uses momentum but is strong as hell.

-Look at all the guys that have been the most successful in natural bodybuilding competitions. The one thing they all have in common is theyre very strong for their BW. Their volumes however are varied.

-Just in general the experienced guys adding the most difference to their physiques year to year are the ones prioritizing building up to "physique changing loads". Those guys doing 4+plates on RDLs, etc. I feel if I do too much volume (and do them after leg curls) Ill hurt my progression on this lift and never reach that level. AJ Morris is another example. He used to do higher volumes, PPL 6 or close to 6 days a week. Never broke out of that intermediate physique. Then he said he started training more HIT (think Jordan Peters) and hes just been LEVELING up year to year. Said he got way more out of it, pivotal switch. Also random tidbit but was cool to see Aj Morris and Steve Hall from ReviveStronger battle it out on the stage a couple years back. 2 of the biggest proponents of HIT vs RP. Not that this means much but AJ just looked more complete, more dense, more muscle. Steve looked good but just not at the same level.

-Hell even kinobody (i think hes not as bad as people act haha). His thousands of clients have some of the best natural transformations out there and hes all about low vol HIT on specific lifts.

 

[tui123]

@jamierite74 I like antagonist paired sets.