@lostandtired I can relate to this a lot. I was one of those people that was always hungry. I tried calorie counting, IF, skipping breakfast, lots of veggies, you name it.
And the only thing that worked for me was getting rid of added sugar. I didn't want to try it for a long time because I was always firmly in the camp of eat whatever you want but within calorie and macro limits.
But sad to say. It works. At least for me. I just don't get those crazy cravings anymore where I can't do anything but eat every carb I have in the pantry.
So you might try that. But I imagine it's a your mileage may vary suggestion.