@bgenterpriseevents How to prioritise the recovery of arms if we're going to hit them 3x week?
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I only want big arms. Not literally, I still am working out other muscle groups, but I want the biggest bulkiest arms. How do I get them?
- Thread starter lizlugo51
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- natural bodybuilding
stephenjob
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lissavirginia
New member
@lizlugo51 Is that 15.8 flexed I'm guessing? Because if it's not, you already have big arms lol
@lissavirginia 16" is already two steps worth of goals ahead of my 13.5" flexed arms, I'm trying to get 14 in May and 15 this summer. 6' 165lbs
@zackpsalm I have 14.76" flexed for now. My bicep insertions are short, with long arms, so I think thye will look small even with 16"
@lizlugo51 15.8” is quite large if you are sub 15% bodyfat and 6’0” or shorter.
Probably the best way to get bigger arms would be to bulk and gain 20lbs heavily focusing on arms, sacrificing Leanness and aesthetics.
Then cut and retain arm mass
Probably the best way to get bigger arms would be to bulk and gain 20lbs heavily focusing on arms, sacrificing Leanness and aesthetics.
Then cut and retain arm mass
@lizlugo51 Training every body part including arms with intensity. The arms will grow. Patient and consistency.
@lizlugo51
- laughs in Russian synthol * . Train triceps 3x a week. Biceps 2x.
@lizlugo51 Set other muscle groups at maintenance volume. You can save your recovery ability and calorie surplus to focus on arms.
Do arms isolations FIRST on your pull and push days. This is when you’re strongest and the muscles haven’t been fatigued from other upper body exercises.
You could do a split like this:
Arms, rest, push, legs, rest, pull, rest
It’s easy to get tendinitis around your elbows from doing a lot of arms isolations. Mix up the rep ranges, don’t just blast heavy weights.
Do all sorts of overhead triceps extensions. Do them slowly in control with elbows flared out. Feel a big stretch in the long head.
Do various types of skullcrushers and curls as well. Do exercises in a lengthened position, feeling a stretch on the muscle each rep.
Get STRONGER at 5 reps, 10 reps, 15 reps, and 20 reps for these arms exercises.
Eat lots of food. Sleep. Use creatine. I probably forgot something else.
Do arms isolations FIRST on your pull and push days. This is when you’re strongest and the muscles haven’t been fatigued from other upper body exercises.
You could do a split like this:
Arms, rest, push, legs, rest, pull, rest
It’s easy to get tendinitis around your elbows from doing a lot of arms isolations. Mix up the rep ranges, don’t just blast heavy weights.
Do all sorts of overhead triceps extensions. Do them slowly in control with elbows flared out. Feel a big stretch in the long head.
Do various types of skullcrushers and curls as well. Do exercises in a lengthened position, feeling a stretch on the muscle each rep.
Get STRONGER at 5 reps, 10 reps, 15 reps, and 20 reps for these arms exercises.
Eat lots of food. Sleep. Use creatine. I probably forgot something else.
faithangel2017
New member
@faithangel2017 Yeah, probably. But I already wasted too much time writing that. Well, I love thinking about exercise so here goes.
Volume will absolutely depend on individual recovery ability. So stress, sleep, work, school, etc will factor into it.
I believe that there is some truth to feeling when your hormones have dropped and you’re into junk volume territory.
But let’s write something generic here. I should mention that time under tension is important. 15 reps of overhead triceps extensions will take the same amount of time as 10 reps of incline dumbbell curls. Smaller ranges of motion can be performed slowly or add reps. 1 rep of shrugs ≠ 1 rep of squats for example.
5x10 (5 sets of 10 reps) of incline dumbbell curls to RIR (reps in reserve) 0 (concentric failure). You cannot complete 1 more rep, but successfully completed the last one.
Use this intensity for the other arm exercises too, but not compound movements. Systemic fatigue is lower on isolations. Feel a biceps stretch at the bottom. The stretch is important for all muscles.
4x15 overhead dumbbell triceps extensions for the long head. Feel a huge stretch, go slowly enough and flare the elbows out. Use one dumbbells with both hands on it, just google it if you’re not sure.
4x10 flat dumbbell skullcrushers (to the top of the forehead) to focus on the other two heads of the triceps a bit more. Another variation goes to the nose or eye level, this will focus on the lateral head while ignoring the long head. This is also good.
You can periodize the numbers of reps, this was just an example. I said to get stronger in multiple ranges for best gains. A set could be added, but generally intensity is more important at a decent volume. There is an upper limit to volume.
For push and pull days, do a similar number of hard sets for triceps on push day, and biceps on pull day. Choose variations of the exercises I mentioned. Be sure to include overhead triceps extensions for the long head. Instead of skullcrushers/cable press downs you might pick a bench press variation that focuses on the triceps. I like pin presses a lot for this if you’re mainly using the triceps and not shoulders.
I mentioned setting other things to maintenance volume - so your arms shouldn’t get blasted too much more by tons of sets for the compounds for upper body.
This likely means reducing volume by half on non-arms exercises.
Shit I wrote a book. Tell me if I can just delete a paragraph…
Volume will absolutely depend on individual recovery ability. So stress, sleep, work, school, etc will factor into it.
I believe that there is some truth to feeling when your hormones have dropped and you’re into junk volume territory.
But let’s write something generic here. I should mention that time under tension is important. 15 reps of overhead triceps extensions will take the same amount of time as 10 reps of incline dumbbell curls. Smaller ranges of motion can be performed slowly or add reps. 1 rep of shrugs ≠ 1 rep of squats for example.
5x10 (5 sets of 10 reps) of incline dumbbell curls to RIR (reps in reserve) 0 (concentric failure). You cannot complete 1 more rep, but successfully completed the last one.
Use this intensity for the other arm exercises too, but not compound movements. Systemic fatigue is lower on isolations. Feel a biceps stretch at the bottom. The stretch is important for all muscles.
4x15 overhead dumbbell triceps extensions for the long head. Feel a huge stretch, go slowly enough and flare the elbows out. Use one dumbbells with both hands on it, just google it if you’re not sure.
4x10 flat dumbbell skullcrushers (to the top of the forehead) to focus on the other two heads of the triceps a bit more. Another variation goes to the nose or eye level, this will focus on the lateral head while ignoring the long head. This is also good.
You can periodize the numbers of reps, this was just an example. I said to get stronger in multiple ranges for best gains. A set could be added, but generally intensity is more important at a decent volume. There is an upper limit to volume.
For push and pull days, do a similar number of hard sets for triceps on push day, and biceps on pull day. Choose variations of the exercises I mentioned. Be sure to include overhead triceps extensions for the long head. Instead of skullcrushers/cable press downs you might pick a bench press variation that focuses on the triceps. I like pin presses a lot for this if you’re mainly using the triceps and not shoulders.
I mentioned setting other things to maintenance volume - so your arms shouldn’t get blasted too much more by tons of sets for the compounds for upper body.
This likely means reducing volume by half on non-arms exercises.
Shit I wrote a book. Tell me if I can just delete a paragraph…
faithangel2017
New member
@krevikes I wholeheartedly admire your passion for lifting. I appreciate you writing this all. Would this be what your usual arm routine looks like? If not, then what is it? Also, do you recommend adding in cheated concentrics after achieving 0 RIR to focus on the eccentric? I know I’m asking of you to write out quite a lot so please feel free to refuse.
@faithangel2017 Thanks, I wanted to study exercise science and got a personal training certificate in the past. But actually having a chill career and decent salary was more important I suppose, so now I’m a software engineer. I think I’m on the autism spectrum because my interests can become obsessions.
This format is what got me my best arm gains in the past. I’ve always been naturally torso dominant so the compounds only advice wasn’t for me.
Now I have a wife, baby, and can only hit the little nearby overcrowded gym on my lunch hour if the wife isn’t pissed. So I’d be lying if I said my workouts are consistent at this point in my journey. But that’s bodybuilding, it doesn’t stop until you’re dead and you work it into your life.
When equipment is taken, I have to alter my plans and it really sucks. But, part of understanding bodybuilding is learning all exercise variations, and how to be an effective minimalist if needed.
So currently I am a big fan of cluster sets/rest-pause sets because they save so much time. The guys publishing exercise studies seem to neglect all of the possibilities with drop sets and clusters.
I’ve been able to maintain a decent physique with minimal gym time this way. I think we need more study for minimalism instead of maximalism. The fitness YouTubers assume that everyone’s profession is exercise.
Ugh I’m ranting on and on again sorry.
—————————————————————
For cheat reps or only negatives:
I think it can be good on your last set for a muscle so it’s not making you weaker on the next set. I’d probably just do a drop set or rest 20 seconds and get another rep though personally. Or do an isometric hold on the last rep. For isolations, especially triceps you can really destroy the muscle and recover from it.
I like some unconventional stuff too, such as isometric/static holds. For example, you could do a bench press hold at about 90% extended for lockout strength/triceps size. I’ve done plenty of holds with a timer. You can choose a part of the range of motion, and it’s very safe I think.
Something weird I did for triceps at one point was going very slowly during the top 1/3 on the eccentric portion for bench. Like a 5 second negative rep in my weakest part of the exercise. It seemed to work, my triceps got bigger and bench went up.
But many things work for muscle building if you just put in the consistent effort and don’t believe in one tiny rep range.
This format is what got me my best arm gains in the past. I’ve always been naturally torso dominant so the compounds only advice wasn’t for me.
Now I have a wife, baby, and can only hit the little nearby overcrowded gym on my lunch hour if the wife isn’t pissed. So I’d be lying if I said my workouts are consistent at this point in my journey. But that’s bodybuilding, it doesn’t stop until you’re dead and you work it into your life.
When equipment is taken, I have to alter my plans and it really sucks. But, part of understanding bodybuilding is learning all exercise variations, and how to be an effective minimalist if needed.
So currently I am a big fan of cluster sets/rest-pause sets because they save so much time. The guys publishing exercise studies seem to neglect all of the possibilities with drop sets and clusters.
I’ve been able to maintain a decent physique with minimal gym time this way. I think we need more study for minimalism instead of maximalism. The fitness YouTubers assume that everyone’s profession is exercise.
Ugh I’m ranting on and on again sorry.
—————————————————————
For cheat reps or only negatives:
I think it can be good on your last set for a muscle so it’s not making you weaker on the next set. I’d probably just do a drop set or rest 20 seconds and get another rep though personally. Or do an isometric hold on the last rep. For isolations, especially triceps you can really destroy the muscle and recover from it.
I like some unconventional stuff too, such as isometric/static holds. For example, you could do a bench press hold at about 90% extended for lockout strength/triceps size. I’ve done plenty of holds with a timer. You can choose a part of the range of motion, and it’s very safe I think.
Something weird I did for triceps at one point was going very slowly during the top 1/3 on the eccentric portion for bench. Like a 5 second negative rep in my weakest part of the exercise. It seemed to work, my triceps got bigger and bench went up.
But many things work for muscle building if you just put in the consistent effort and don’t believe in one tiny rep range.
faithangel2017
New member
@faithangel2017 Thanks. One more thing to note, you probably already realize this but it’s worth mentioning for eccentric/concentric/isometric discussions:
If you’re tracking the weight lifted, a 2 second concentric is more than a 2 second eccentric, and also more than holding it in a static isometric position for 2 seconds. Fighting against gravity is what we do.
—————————————————————-
I mention not sticking to one repetition range because they complement each other. The neural adaptation from improving your 1-3 rep max will help you lift more weight at 20 reps. Staying in one range forever leads to stagnation.
The guys who were stuck in one range then switch will often proclaim their new rep number as the best. This is because it’s working for them now, since they ignored it for years.
Of course, the guy who only trained at 1-3 reps with compounds for years is now getting huge training at 15-30. He made all of the CNS adaptations to lift heavy and is finally focused on bodybuilding.
The opposite can be true too, don’t totally ignore strength. For many people, the fastest way to get stronger at 15 reps is by training at 3-7 reps.
I usually label 30 reps as my upper limit on exercises with a big range of motion, but it actually depends on the amount of time you are lifting the weight. As repetitions get high, they can also get faster since it’s not heavy for you.
One more mention of clusters and rest-pause sets:
CrossFit is full of them. They’re doing mainly Olympic lifting cluster sets. While they’re not bodybuilders, their style with some isolation exercises added could be highly effective. This strict idea of sets and reps will eventually evolve.
I was originally only writing the top 2 paragraphs but started thinking about exercise again and got carried away…
If you’re tracking the weight lifted, a 2 second concentric is more than a 2 second eccentric, and also more than holding it in a static isometric position for 2 seconds. Fighting against gravity is what we do.
—————————————————————-
I mention not sticking to one repetition range because they complement each other. The neural adaptation from improving your 1-3 rep max will help you lift more weight at 20 reps. Staying in one range forever leads to stagnation.
The guys who were stuck in one range then switch will often proclaim their new rep number as the best. This is because it’s working for them now, since they ignored it for years.
Of course, the guy who only trained at 1-3 reps with compounds for years is now getting huge training at 15-30. He made all of the CNS adaptations to lift heavy and is finally focused on bodybuilding.
The opposite can be true too, don’t totally ignore strength. For many people, the fastest way to get stronger at 15 reps is by training at 3-7 reps.
I usually label 30 reps as my upper limit on exercises with a big range of motion, but it actually depends on the amount of time you are lifting the weight. As repetitions get high, they can also get faster since it’s not heavy for you.
One more mention of clusters and rest-pause sets:
CrossFit is full of them. They’re doing mainly Olympic lifting cluster sets. While they’re not bodybuilders, their style with some isolation exercises added could be highly effective. This strict idea of sets and reps will eventually evolve.
I was originally only writing the top 2 paragraphs but started thinking about exercise again and got carried away…
faithangel2017
New member
@krevikes Thats interesting. So should I aim for a 2 second concentric, and aim for a 3-4 second eccentric?
on the topic of rep ranges, how can I go about slotting in different rep ranges into my routine? I train full body 3 times a week, so would allocating a certain rep range focus for each day be fine?
Monday: 3-5 (compounds) 6-8 (isolations)
Wednesday: 6-10 (compounds) 8-12 (isolations
Friday: 8-12 (compounds) 15-20 (isolations)
Would this setup work according to your statements earlier or would you change a few things about it. Of course, the rep ranges themselves are arbitrary and can be changed but I’m emphasising the fact that one day is heavy, other is moderate, and last is light.
Additionally, please stop referring to your contributions to this conversation as ‘getting carried away’. Your advice is very valuable to me right now. It’s not everyday I stumble upon an array of knowledge like this.
on the topic of rep ranges, how can I go about slotting in different rep ranges into my routine? I train full body 3 times a week, so would allocating a certain rep range focus for each day be fine?
Monday: 3-5 (compounds) 6-8 (isolations)
Wednesday: 6-10 (compounds) 8-12 (isolations
Friday: 8-12 (compounds) 15-20 (isolations)
Would this setup work according to your statements earlier or would you change a few things about it. Of course, the rep ranges themselves are arbitrary and can be changed but I’m emphasising the fact that one day is heavy, other is moderate, and last is light.
Additionally, please stop referring to your contributions to this conversation as ‘getting carried away’. Your advice is very valuable to me right now. It’s not everyday I stumble upon an array of knowledge like this.
@faithangel2017 I think a 2 second concentric is pretty slow actually. You’re trying to contract the muscle hard and generate force so it should probably be about 1 second unless you’re grinding through the last rep or two. Then the eccentric is more like 2 to 2.5 seconds.
I do like to hold the stretch for a few seconds sometimes. I think there is some science backing up the idea of intra-set stretching. Some protocols have involved inter-set stretching as well. But too much stretching might reduce the ability to contract the muscle hard. This is something that deserves further research I think.
For periodizing rep ranges on your training split:
I don’t think I can write a better plan than some of the ones out there from “experts”, but I’ll try to give suggestions. Whatever program helps you enjoy it and put energy and intensity into the workout is going to be great.
Don’t be afraid to do compounds for high reps too. The weight will decrease a lot but you’ll build muscle. I would make the high reps day into 11-15 or even 15-20. Get a huge pump, blood flow won’t hurt your gains and will probably help!
Watch out for overtraining, especially in the lower rep ranges on compound movements. On isolations, you won’t overtrain your CNS in the same way but you might feel it in your tendons. For someone enthusiastic like you, overtraining is more likely than under training.
In this Mon/Wed/Fri split you have two days of rest before Monday and 1 day between the others. So I’d choose either low reps or high reps on Monday, depending on which is more important to you. Then do the other one on Wednesday.
Going from 3-5 reps, then 6-8 reps two days later could mean the Weds workout is compromised from some CNS fatigue, maybe you won’t be full strength. Doing 11-15 reps two days after 3-5 will have less interference, and two days later you can hit the 6-8 reps better.
I’m not a huge fan of full body workouts because I think you need to warm up for a set or two and find a groove on each exercise. Also if there’s any setup with plates and such, it just takes time.
I think Upper/Lower, Push/Pull/Legs, or other splits have been better for me. Chest+biceps/ Back+triceps/legs, so that the compounds and arms isolations don’t interfere with one another.
Or even deadlift/bench/squat/ weighted chin-ups with some isolations added. Put in a rest day between each.
Side note: weighted chins are the missing compound movement! Deadlifts do hit the lats, but not in the same way as chin-ups and they definitely don’t build the biceps or rear delts as effectively.
But if you’re making great gains with full body workouts, stick to it! And let me know how why you chose them, since it’s not a popular split.
I do like to hold the stretch for a few seconds sometimes. I think there is some science backing up the idea of intra-set stretching. Some protocols have involved inter-set stretching as well. But too much stretching might reduce the ability to contract the muscle hard. This is something that deserves further research I think.
For periodizing rep ranges on your training split:
I don’t think I can write a better plan than some of the ones out there from “experts”, but I’ll try to give suggestions. Whatever program helps you enjoy it and put energy and intensity into the workout is going to be great.
Don’t be afraid to do compounds for high reps too. The weight will decrease a lot but you’ll build muscle. I would make the high reps day into 11-15 or even 15-20. Get a huge pump, blood flow won’t hurt your gains and will probably help!
Watch out for overtraining, especially in the lower rep ranges on compound movements. On isolations, you won’t overtrain your CNS in the same way but you might feel it in your tendons. For someone enthusiastic like you, overtraining is more likely than under training.
In this Mon/Wed/Fri split you have two days of rest before Monday and 1 day between the others. So I’d choose either low reps or high reps on Monday, depending on which is more important to you. Then do the other one on Wednesday.
Going from 3-5 reps, then 6-8 reps two days later could mean the Weds workout is compromised from some CNS fatigue, maybe you won’t be full strength. Doing 11-15 reps two days after 3-5 will have less interference, and two days later you can hit the 6-8 reps better.
I’m not a huge fan of full body workouts because I think you need to warm up for a set or two and find a groove on each exercise. Also if there’s any setup with plates and such, it just takes time.
I think Upper/Lower, Push/Pull/Legs, or other splits have been better for me. Chest+biceps/ Back+triceps/legs, so that the compounds and arms isolations don’t interfere with one another.
Or even deadlift/bench/squat/ weighted chin-ups with some isolations added. Put in a rest day between each.
Side note: weighted chins are the missing compound movement! Deadlifts do hit the lats, but not in the same way as chin-ups and they definitely don’t build the biceps or rear delts as effectively.
But if you’re making great gains with full body workouts, stick to it! And let me know how why you chose them, since it’s not a popular split.
faithangel2017
New member
@krevikes Your suggestion of doing low reps on Monday, high reps on Wednesday and moderate reps on Friday actually makes a lot of sense. I’ll do that then.
As for why I choose to do full body, it’s because it has the greatest frequency and time return. I hit each muscle 3 times a week but only go to the gym 3 times a week, as opposed to doing a ppl or upper lower where I hit each muscle 2 times a week with more days.
I enjoy full body because it also builds up your general fitness and endurance, which is good to have. Weighted pull-ups and dips have always been a cornerstone of any program I decide to do so yeah I agree with you on them.
What kind of split do you follow and what does your training look like?
As for why I choose to do full body, it’s because it has the greatest frequency and time return. I hit each muscle 3 times a week but only go to the gym 3 times a week, as opposed to doing a ppl or upper lower where I hit each muscle 2 times a week with more days.
I enjoy full body because it also builds up your general fitness and endurance, which is good to have. Weighted pull-ups and dips have always been a cornerstone of any program I decide to do so yeah I agree with you on them.
What kind of split do you follow and what does your training look like?
@lizlugo51 Eat in a surplus, isolate biceps and triceps up to 3x/week each, hit them through all ROMs at all rep ranges, focus on building the mind-muscle connection.
@lizlugo51 I would follow geoffery verity’s advice
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