I went totally plant based for over a month for health reasons and recorded my results. My testosterone plummeted (male) any ideas?

[kipdave]

Hi guys,

In a nutshell I turned to a plant-based diet to seek greater health, as I believe it is healthier than relying on animal based products for the majority of a diet. I realise this is the vegan subreddit, but I was hoping for some guidance.

Over my 40 or so days totally plant based (no meat whatsoever, no dairy whatsoever) a lot of changes happened in my body. First I was tired, but then I felt good and continue to feel quite healthy.

I thought it would be fun to get some before and after blood tests to see what improves/what does not.

Overall my cholesterol improved drastically, with LDL in the healthy range for the first time EVER. Thryoid functions just as well as it did while consuming animal products. Liver is functioning better, kidneys is functioning better. Ferritin went down and is quite low (but I've always been low) but Iron in the blood went up significantly. Estrogen improved drastically and is at a good level for a male. Vitamin D went down.

Now, onto the testosterone. It went down dramatically.

Meat based diet 21 Nov 2017
Testosterone = 37.8 (12-32) nmol/L
Free Testosterone = 529 (260-740) pmol/L
SHBG = 75 (17-56) nmol/L

Plant based diet 24th January 2018
Testosterone = 22.5 (12-32) nmol/L
Free Testosterone = 264 (260-740) pmol/L
SHBG = 78 (17-56) nmol/L

As you can tell, my free testosterone is almost at the bottom of the range. This would also explain why I was also feeling a bit of a drop in libido, too.

Here is a quick example of the range of foods I ate on a daily basis: Meals: - Quinoa with four bean mix, rocket, beetroot - Rice with tomato sauce and vegetables - Salads with red kidney beans, black beans, celery, cucumber, tomato, olives, avocado - Vegetable stir fry with quinoa/rice - Lentils - Wraps with vegetables/avocado/beans - Lentil patties - Vegetable patties - Tofu in salads or grilled in meals

Snacks: - Toast with avocado - Vegan grain bars - All natural rice bars - Rice cakes - Fava beans - Almonds - Pepitas - Lots of fruits mainly bananas, mango, pear, kiwi and passionfruit

Can anyone help explain why my testosterone may have lowered so much, and perhaps maybe point out some gaps in my diet, before I go back and eat meat because I think it is the only way to get my test back up?

 

[dawn16]

@kipdave I don’t know much about testosterone but here’s what I would do:

1. Track your meals on a free meal tracker like cronometer (recommended because it tracks individual amino acids) - this will give you a good idea of what you may be lacking
2. Figure out what you’re deficient in (especially zinc, thiamine, and other vitamins/minerals/proteins your body needs to create testosterone)
3. Find foods that are high in whatever you’re lacking and eat more of those - you may want to supplement but it’s not necessary (except for B12)
4. Keep tracking until you find a meal plan that fits your needs while meeting your dailies. You don’t have to always track but if you feel off its a good idea

Again, I don’t know your specific problem but I know that it is very possible to be a healthy, happy vegan! Good luck!

 

[kipdave]

@dawn16 Thanks, and I want to continue being plant based as I generally feel so much healthier on it. Not to mention I am losing fat which seems impossible for me on pretty much every other way of eating under the sun.

Just need to tweak. I would definitely be missing out on some vital nutrients somewhere.

 

[spidermat]

@kipdave If you’re losing fat, you’re probably on a caloric deficit, which (at least for me) decreases testosterone.

 

[savedbygracenotbyworks]

@spidermat This.

 

[kirbygabbs]

@kipdave I think this is an obvious case, iirc there is many studies heavily linking vitamin D levels with test levels, please consider taking a vit D supplement .

 

[kipdave]

@kirbygabbs It is possible, however my Vit D levels are not at a dangerious level, although doctor said should be around 100.

I spend a lot of time in the sun, or so I think. Obviously not enough. Will be getting on the supplement

 

[adadoyinamangbo]

@kipdave Doesn't have to be a dangerous level for bodily functions to start being impacted.

 

[rambles17]

@kipdave 100 is the upper limit. That would take a lot of supplementation over a long period of time.

 

[dawn16]

@kipdave I'm not an endocrinologist, however have a look at cholesterol, testosterone & estradiol (estrogen) in the hormonal cascade:

https://www.uspharmacist.com/CMSImagesContent/2015/9/_NavigatingHRT-F1.gif

Blood cholesterol tends to be independent of the cholesterol (meat products) people people eat because cholesterol is produced by the liver.

Testosterone will go down with age, and possibly lack of cholesterol substrate (unlikely). The problem with most Western diets they generate too much cholesterol. You may be able to increase testosterone with exercise.

Estradiol will decrease because of low testosterone, or low body fat.

In the past 20 years we have learned through epigenetics that a full range of plant nutrient are needed for the body to function properly - nitrogen, potassium calcium, magnesium, vitamins, polyphenols, etc. Have a look at the ingredients in Rhonda Patrick's smoothie for the sort of foods you should be regularly eating. You should add green leafy veges (particularly calciferous) each day and though you are eating protein I would question how much of that is complete protein eg soy milk.

I take Vitamin D, B12, and a multivitamin and it will probably help you too.

And using my ESP I think you eat Vegie Delights patties or Moroccan vege burgers!

 

[lovemeg101]

@dawn16 Name one thing he is eating that isn't a complete protein? It seems that you don't know what foods constitute "complete", that word is falsely used because all plant foods are complete. On mobile, but check out Dr. Greger on YouTube and his nutrition facts.org videos on complete proteins

 

[dawn16]

@lovemeg101 Quoting me

https://www.reddit.com/r/veganfitness/comments/7rejht/how_to_maximize_protein_sat_fats_and_complete

All plants are complete - they all contains all amino acids. Some are more "balanced" eg soy.

Lysine tends to be the limiting amino acid in plants.

So what I said was a simplification, and an encouragement to eat food high in all amino acids.

 

[lovemeg101]

@dawn16 Good correction

 

[davis2568]

@dawn16 He eats beans and lentils, which are high in lysine

 

[stanpcb]

@kipdave Testosterone levels fluctuate. Quite a lot actually. What time of day was the blood drawn for the labwork? The difference between a morning draw and afternoon draw could explain the differences you're seeing here.

 

[kipdave]

@stanpcb Morning, 8am. Like all of my blood tests

 

[mikef]

@kipdave Endocrinology is a complex field and the interpretation of hormone assays is not straight forward. I don't do endocrine and I know that to interpret hormone levels requires an endocrine opinion except for when the levels are incredibly low.

The confounding factors are the variability between individuals, the variability over time, and the different and sometimes lengthy half-lives of the various hormones. Lastly the result could easily be due to chance and probably is.

 

[dawn16]

@kipdave I can't answer your question, but it has been only a month. Give it a few more and see if things stabilize.

 

[flibbleflob]

@kipdave There's a good bit of random variation in testosterone levels between tests. Testosterone levels are highest in the morning and fall during the day, so tests should be done at the same time of day. Two tests should be done to make sure levels have actually fallen.

 

[suomisidney]

@kipdave Make use of a tool like cronometer.com to track your daily micronutrients, total calories, and total protein.

Your foods look alright but it's not clear if you're eating enough. Many people underestimate how much they need to be eating on a plant based diet.