Internalized misogyny and sports?
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@jalp2016 It's more like - if you grew up being taught "because your brother is taller and older and stronger that means he's more man than you and that manhood justifies him having legal superiority over you", and in layer years even when you don't believe that you still get triggered by displays of strength from your brother 
and have to remind yourself that him being bigger doesn't mean what you were told.
and have to remind yourself that him being bigger doesn't mean what you were told.@lorial Huh?
Nah i only feel happy when i see my brother lift heavy and feel good for him
I don't feel like he's more of a man i just know thay if him and i work equally hard at strength training he will have a higher peak than me
I can still be able to do more pull ups, push ups, run faster, have better cardio
But it's just a fact that i would not be able to lift as much as him if we were both at our peaks
But strength really doesn't matter aslong as you have enough
Nah i only feel happy when i see my brother lift heavy and feel good for him
I don't feel like he's more of a man i just know thay if him and i work equally hard at strength training he will have a higher peak than me
I can still be able to do more pull ups, push ups, run faster, have better cardio
But it's just a fact that i would not be able to lift as much as him if we were both at our peaks
But strength really doesn't matter aslong as you have enough
@jalp2016 Yup that's what I'm saying - the difference between us is that you've never experienced your brother's strength being used to socially justify you being LEGALLY inferior. I've experienced that as a woman being compared to men. So my situation is a bit different than you and your brother.
@lorial Who told you you were legally inferior due to being weaker? Not mean spirited btw just curious cuz thats fucked
But i've had to live with my height being used to tell me i will never be a man and never have a woman love me
People are assholes and i think we just need to work hard to understand that having shit people around us doens't mean that society holds that standard
But i've had to live with my height being used to tell me i will never be a man and never have a woman love me
People are assholes and i think we just need to work hard to understand that having shit people around us doens't mean that society holds that standard
onekrissy1
New member
@lorial I think it's way worse than that. Sports are inherently unfair by default, not only to women but to all the people that don't have all it requires to play at the top.. we just could talk about the money(between the memberships, equipments,the food etc.) and genetics (even at the top level genetics plays a crucial role it's not even funny) so yeah either there is a category that fits you and you'll be able to compete or you have to swallow it up and play it for fun
@onekrissy1 Yessss exactly you nailed it. Growing up sports were portrayed to me as a form of Equal Competition and a point of physical pride over others. Like, your country "winning" at a sport over other countries. It's been helpful to be like "that's nonsense this is all just fun" 
sekoumou74
New member
@lorial Maybe I’m completely misunderstanding (and you probably didn’t come here for a feminism lesson), but I just wanted to point out that that’s not internalized misogyny, that’s just regular run-of-the-mill misogyny that you’ve now become aware of through exercise, the difference being that you’ve not internalized some harmful, false stereotype, but rather that the situation you described is an unfortunate reality/symptom of living as a woman in a patriarchal society (men will always be more physically powerful, and living as a woman means always being in some level of danger as a result, and this dichotomy might affect how and why we exercise). I being this up because I just need you (and others) to know you’re not crazy or wrong or in need of some kind of personal reeducation for newly recognizing this inequality.
@sekoumou74 ^ This is it OP. I feel like a lot of people on this post are reacting hyper-individually, as opposed to responding to what I think it is you're responding to, which is the experience of women as a class. Women tend to not have the best female class consciousness, simply because it isn't encouraged like economic or disability class consciousness is encouraged. It's totally natural to be afraid of men--men as a class are terrifying! They commit 98% of rapes and the majority of global crime overall. Of course women are scared! I think something that may help you is taking a self defense class that is specifically for smaller victims defending themselves against larger assailants.
Other than that, radical acceptance is what has helped me. Am I more vulnerable to attack because I am a smaller woman? Yes. Is there much I can do about that? Not really (going to the gym, if anything, is helpful for increasing strength/endurance just in case you are attacked). But you can't live in a constant state of fear, so it's best to just accept what you can change (like your ability in the gym), and accept what you can't change (the long, long history of men using their strength to victimize women).
Other than that, radical acceptance is what has helped me. Am I more vulnerable to attack because I am a smaller woman? Yes. Is there much I can do about that? Not really (going to the gym, if anything, is helpful for increasing strength/endurance just in case you are attacked). But you can't live in a constant state of fear, so it's best to just accept what you can change (like your ability in the gym), and accept what you can't change (the long, long history of men using their strength to victimize women).
@sekoumou74 That’s literally what internalized misogyny is. “Internalized oppression” refers to prejudiced ideas people learn to have against their own group. Or to quote the Wikipedia definition:
“Internalized” misogyny has nothing to do with whether an idea is a stereotype or “false,” it has to do with whether a woman is the one who has the attitude. Feeling like you are inherently worse at a thing to the point where you feel discouraged from doing it certainly fits the bill.
Suffering from internalized misogyny doesn’t make a person crazy or wrong, it is indeed a normal result of growing up in a misogynistic society. Women and girls are surrounded by messages that men will always be better at fitness activities (not even true afaik - are men better at gymnastics? Or are most sports designed for them?). Yes, men are going to be stronger in general, but the fact that this true is not what’s important here. The fact that we’ve been taught that this has anything to do with personal fitness is the issue. Why does someone else being stronger make us feel inferior? Because we’ve been told that it makes us inferior.
“Internalized” misogyny has nothing to do with whether an idea is a stereotype or “false,” it has to do with whether a woman is the one who has the attitude. Feeling like you are inherently worse at a thing to the point where you feel discouraged from doing it certainly fits the bill.
Suffering from internalized misogyny doesn’t make a person crazy or wrong, it is indeed a normal result of growing up in a misogynistic society. Women and girls are surrounded by messages that men will always be better at fitness activities (not even true afaik - are men better at gymnastics? Or are most sports designed for them?). Yes, men are going to be stronger in general, but the fact that this true is not what’s important here. The fact that we’ve been taught that this has anything to do with personal fitness is the issue. Why does someone else being stronger make us feel inferior? Because we’ve been told that it makes us inferior.
sekoumou74
New member
@shiloh153 Thanks for your thoughts! I will just say that I am somewhat of an expert (as far as one can be) on the topic, so I have a pretty good understanding of the difference between the two. Experiencing inequality/sexism and internalizing it are two different things, and the way OP described the situation (or rather, as I’ve interpreted it) is that she’s become aware of the inequality of men vs women as it relates to sports and exercise, rather than uncovering an unconscious bias she was holding toward women/herself.
buttersnaps
New member
@lorial I'm fully prepared to be alone in this but... no. This has never happened to me and I'm speaking as someone who has a tendency to overthink things. But when I step into that gym all of that stops. The only one I have to impress is me. This why I love lifting so much, you're simultaneously the sculptor and the clay. So what if men have an advantage over us? Your effort is always rewarded. Eight months ago I thought I'll never be able to do a pull up. Now I'm 80% of the way there. The only one I'm competing against in that gym is me.
@buttersnaps This, but also I train in powerlifting with men every week and they are all super supportive and always just as impressed with how much I lift as they would be with any other guy.
@buttersnaps Starting to think about bodyweight ratio help a ton also. I’m squatting 60kg and the guy next to me is squatting 80kg ? Ok he lift more than me but we are both able to squat our bodyweight soo we are kinda equally strong
davehtexas
New member
@buttersnaps I agree.
I don't generally compare myself to others, but moreso I know some people will always be stronger and faster than me. No point in thinking about that! No worries.
I find wrestling a lot of fun, and it's hardly about winning.
I don't generally compare myself to others, but moreso I know some people will always be stronger and faster than me. No point in thinking about that! No worries.
I find wrestling a lot of fun, and it's hardly about winning.
emmanuelmongwe
New member
@lorial I had to unlearn a lot of the internalized misogyny .
My first step was removing myself from environments of people that would enable those things, such as 1) obsession for slimness 2) ego lifting or especially ego cross fitters and 3) strong cis gender binary beliefs (men are xyz, women are abc,no mention of trans/queer people? ). Once I got out of those friend circles or environments, I really started letting go of a lot of toxicity.
At first I was part of the problem too, don't get me wrong, especially I came from the other end. (The-- I'm not "like those girls who just run"-- that type of bullshit) I liked a lot of what those toxic individuals would say "only men do that stuff why are you doing it" to me, and especially when it came to lifting (my favourite activity), favoring back/upper body as opposed to glutes).
Every so often when I bench I keep talking myself down, but I remind myself that those were words from toxic sexist people. It's hard to change at first, but once the dissonance set in, I knew I couldn't think those thoughts or let that sexism/toxicity be in my life. And my life is way healthier now.
My first step was removing myself from environments of people that would enable those things, such as 1) obsession for slimness 2) ego lifting or especially ego cross fitters and 3) strong cis gender binary beliefs (men are xyz, women are abc,no mention of trans/queer people? ). Once I got out of those friend circles or environments, I really started letting go of a lot of toxicity.
At first I was part of the problem too, don't get me wrong, especially I came from the other end. (The-- I'm not "like those girls who just run"-- that type of bullshit) I liked a lot of what those toxic individuals would say "only men do that stuff why are you doing it" to me, and especially when it came to lifting (my favourite activity), favoring back/upper body as opposed to glutes).
Every so often when I bench I keep talking myself down, but I remind myself that those were words from toxic sexist people. It's hard to change at first, but once the dissonance set in, I knew I couldn't think those thoughts or let that sexism/toxicity be in my life. And my life is way healthier now.
@lorial Interesting thing to think about. I never realized I naturally focus on types of fitness that are easy to ace. Flexibility, stamina, etc. you just have to be the fastest one in your group lol. I do gymnastic conditioning, ballet, dance, running, climbing, swimming, things that are better when you’re sleek and fast. I don’t see any real world benefit to being able to throw around heavy stuff. Every human is too weak to really be much use at moving big things. That’s what machines are for lol. It’s more fun being fast and flexible and able to snap to action. I’m really excited for football season though bc it mixes the best of both worlds plus teamwork and strategy.
melodyonpoint
New member
@mmdia82 Flexibility & stamina are easy to ace for you because these are women’s strengths!!!! Go to the gym & put a man through the same stretching or mobility routine & he’ll struggle and fumble vs the woman. Same with stamina. You can have an hour long cardio group fitness class & women will do two in a row while men lift for 90sec and rest for 5 minutes!!!