No gains after months?

[shneider177]

Hi everyone. I'm 33 and in addition to practicing kendo, I've also been going to a gym for the past few years. I got into cross-training last year and I've been training twice a week.

Today's menu was back squat PR. I failed a 55kg rep because my shoulders tipped forward at the bottom of the squat so my PR for the day was 52, which is exactly the same as my last attempt in March. I've become fitter overall in the past year, but I fail to see any sensible improvements in the main lifts (back squat, deadlifts, C&J and snatch) when the load starts getting heavier.

Any tips? Probably the best option would be to do work with a personalized program on building strength, but I also like working different skills in cross-training and the social dimension of it.

 

[gorickeo]

@shneider177 Doesn't seem like you've really prioritized strength training, so it's no wonder you haven't made any progress. Twice a week doesn't seem like nearly enough to make significant progress across the 4 lifts mentioned unless you're spending 2+ hours each of those days absolutely hammering yourself. Considering you also train another sport, it would be even harder to progress. If you want to get stronger, you have to train to get stronger. A million beginner programs will help your strength explode, especially with your base of fitness already. You just have to choose to prioritize strength training if getting stronger is what you want.

 

[shneider177]

@gorickeo You're right. I'll talk to my coach and see if there's a way for me to train strength without completely foregoing endurance training (I've always been so incredibly bad at anything cardio that I would hate to lose what little progress I've made).

 

[manoffiji]

@shneider177 I was always told and it is true (at least for me) that to get better at a lift you have to keep doing the lift and increasing weight gradually. There are many programs out there to try. I am always a fan of Wendlers 5/3/1 and it has worked wonders for my squat, bench and deadlifts when I ran it when I was powerlifting. Within two years I went from a 180lb deadlift to a 350lb deadlift and similar with my squat as well. Bench I always struggled with no matter what.

I would do each lift one day a week. You can always sprinkler in other things but with strength I feel if that is what you are going for it has to be the main focus to really increase.

 

[shirl]

@manoffiji This is the correct answer. Cross training is never going to get you the same results as focused training. Look at a decathlete in the Olympics. The gold medal winner would not even qualify for the Olympics in any one of those ten individual events.

 

[shneider177]

@manoffiji Thank you! I might have to cut down on cross-training for a bit while I recover from eye surgery, I could use that time to focus on strength training.

 

[coup]

@shneider177 Are you eating enough? Are you gaining lean mass?

 

[shneider177]

@coup I've been fairly stable in my weight for the past few months, so I don't think so.

 

[coup]

@shneider177 It's pretty rare that you can get stronger without gaining weight. It's possible if you are trading fat for lean mass. Muscles need to get bigger to get stronger. Endurance is another beast and it seems to be what you are focusing on. Try eating a bit more on your lift days, see if it helps.

 

[shneider177]

@coup I'm due for another tobec test, but I don't think I'm trading fat for lean mass at this stage. I think I've plateau'd and I need something different to get the engine going. I'll try and eat more on lift days, I already try and have meals that are richer in protein oncross-training days but I'll pay more attention to that.

 

[paulotarsus]

@shneider177 So glad you've gotten fitter. In terms of strength, you're experiencing what all lifters experience eventually: you've exhausted your novice gains and can no longer get stronger in a linear fashion. If you want to get stronger you will need to program. Here's a great, very clear breakdown on strength programming from Greg Nuckols, but in essence:

1. If you're making progress, great, don't change anything.
2. If you're not making progress you are either a) not getting enough total volume, or b) too much total volume.

If you don't get in enough work (at a given intensity), you won't get bigger and stronger because there's not enough stimulus to grow. If you put in too much work (at a given intensity), you won't get stronger because you can't recover.

That's why you need programming: so you can tinker with work and recovery to optimize and get big and strong. If you google "intermediate strength program" you will find eleventy-billion cookie cutter programs. Maybe one of those will work for you, but likely only with a lot of modification, because the program wasn't designed for you: your recovery rate, your current sleep and rest, your genetic potential for strength, etc.

The alternative is to learn to program for yourself. The principle is simple: when you are stuck, go down in intensity, and then build up your work capacity at the lower weight. NOT reset and go up again in linear fashion like Starting Strength, but actually get stronger at the intensity you can handle and recover from. So let's say I'm stuck at 420lbs deadlift. I go down to 385lbs, and build up my capacity from sets of 6-8 to sets of 12. I can now lift 435lbs 1RM with high velocity. By the time I'm working 435lbs for sets of 4, 470lbs is an easy 1 rep lift, and so.

Hope that makes sense and is helpful.

 

[shneider177]

@paulotarsus Thank you for all the information and the link! Some of the coaches at the gym (the cross-training classes I go to) are oly lifters so I might be able to get a personalized program.

 

[quos]

@paulotarsus If OP is male, it’s extremely unlikely he’s exhausted novice gains. He’s not trained hard enough to get those gains.

 

[shneider177]

@quos I'm a woman (33, 56kg).

 

[marinasdiamond]

@shneider177 56 kg is 1.3134 bags portland cement

[sup][sup][sup]WHY[/sup][/sup][/sup]

 

[opticalearth]

@shneider177 How about figuring out which element of your squat is your weakest link:

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And once you've identified that, work to improve that particular aspect.

After a round of that, repeat with your next weakest link.

As you expand the capacity of your joints workspace, joint by joint, you can improve strength and control in more complicated movements when using all those joints.

 

[shneider177]

@opticalearth My upper back (I think it's that) tilts forward when I'm in bottom position. That's why I missed that 55kg lift, and I realized I did that a couple of times while doing squat cleans yesterday morning. The clean is fine and then in the moment I'm at the bottom of the squat I tilt forward a bit. These cleans were not heavy (25kg) so it didn't throw me off balance, but that's an issue.

I'm wondering if it is lack of thoracic extension, or possibly core engagement (or a combination of both).

 

[marinasdiamond]

@shneider177 55 kg is 7.3656e+09 donkey power * hours

25 kg is 1.713 slugs

[sup][sup][sup]WHY[/sup][/sup][/sup]

 

[opticalearth]

@shneider177 I'd say core engagement can best do its thing if you have control of the joint functions first. If your back has a segmentation problem, or a hinge point, increasing strength in a system that is not working right is just going to further mask the limitation.

You could work to improve extension, but that's ultimately just guessing. And to improve it, extension has to work along with a bit of rotation and flexion, but maybe one of those aspects are the weak link, and that's where you would focus?

Instead, consider if you evaluate the joints involved individually in a squat, you may find one or more that is not working right, and its not necessarily the place with pain or lack of control. Thats why its good to eval each one on their own merits, so you can assess, not guess.

A hip or ankle limitation can often cause back or knee issues because those tissues are asked to do more than their fair share. And if you're asking too much of the back, it can make it feel as though you're right at the edge of your capacity in that one spot. So how do you know if its working ok and overloaded, or not working ok? The only way to know is assess the function of all the joints involved - often the weakest links are not what you'd expect.

If you did want to self-eval your thoracic, the best way I know is learning CARs = controlled articular rotations. You'd start these just exploring the movement gently:

Over time you'd get more comfortable with higher tension, and could try this variation:

They have CARs you can learn for every joint, I highly recommend for improving joint health, and self evaluating specific movement limitations. Once you have a specific deficiency identified, its a lot easier to find the appropriate solution.

 

[shneider177]

@opticalearth Thank you, I'm going to try this out for the main joints. I might go for a foam roller as well (I have a ball at home that I mostly use for lats and calves).