Not made any progress in years

[cinnamoroll]

@masonmatt1000 The heaviest I've ever been is 207lbs, but I was more fat than anything else. And I didn't start out fat. I was 145 lbs when I started working out. I was around 195 lbs last December and diet down to the 175 I am now

 

[masonmatt1000]

@cinnamoroll How long did you sit over 200? You might just need more bulking cycles, or a bit of an extended bulk to allow your body adapt to a heavier weight before cutting. I know it can be hard cause we want abs year round but for size you have to really commit to being big for a while. I avoided bulking for years and was stuck at 170. First bulk to 200, cut to 177, second to 220 cut to 185, then I just went ham with the bulks to 245 then 265 and I sat at 240 for about a year, and I really feel like the size came from YEARS over 200. Unfortunately you have to consider potential health consequences of doing that at your age, whereas I did all that in my 20s.

 

[cinnamoroll]

@masonmatt1000 I was at 200+ for about 6 month. Besides that my most steady weight had been for 185 for years.
Your point makes great sense. And while I definitely could reach 200+ again, I do like how I feel at my current bf level. My energi is much better and I don't get tired as quickly as at a higher weight. Fitness/bodybuilding is for me as much about feeling good in my skin as it is about just getting huge.

But with that said, I want to keep making progress and gaining muscle. I'm just not interested in getting mega fat.

 

[cinnamoroll]

I've read all of your comments and realised that I might just be lying to myself in regards to how much effort I put in both in my training and my diet.

I'm pretty straight when doing fat loss, but when it comes to bulking I just fuck around to much. And even tho I'm able to gain weight (been at 94 kg) I'm mostly just getting fat and not really building much muscle it seems.

And I agree that my lifts are pretty shit compared to how much time I've put into training over the years.

As some of you have suggested, a coach might be a good idea and I will look into that.

As in details regarding my current split it looks like this.
I do PPL.
For Push I do
bench press 4-6 x 4
Incline press 8-12 x 4
Incline flyes 15-20 x 3
Ohp 4-8 x 4
Side lateral raise 12-15x4
Cable pushdowns 12x4
Cable overhead extension 12x4

My pull and leg workout are structured in the same manner.

 

[dawn16]

@cinnamoroll HIT training is great. Mike Mentzer is dogmatic and did in fact say some ludicrous shit. It’s hilarious that he’s all of a sudden massively popular all over Reddit after no one talking about him for two decades.

 

[edram]

@dawn16 It's cyclical. High volume was trendy, now low volume.

OP how much have your lifts and bodyweight increased in the last year?

 

[cinnamoroll]

@edram Both have gone down the last year due to diet. I was 91 kg this time last year but have lost around 10 kg since December as I had gotten to fat and needed to diet down a bit.
My lifts are pretty much the same as 5 years ago. Or I'm a tad bit weaker now than back then .

 

[dawn16]

@edram Yea, everything in fitness is cyclical, but Mentzer specifically I haven’t heard discussed nearly this much in 20 years. And it was never because anyone was actually seriously considering using his methodology.

 

[cinnamoroll]

@dawn16 He was on my recommendation list on YouTube (together with Tom Platz), so I have no good answer to why he's being pushed by the algorithm.

But do you think he's approach has any validation? I was thinking something like an upper/lower split 4 times a week with minimal amount of volume, but great emphasis on HIT and going to and beyond failure on most sets?

 

[dawn16]

@cinnamoroll I train in a higher intensity fashion and love it, but Mentzer isn’t the avatar here. Check out Doggcrapp and Dorian Yates for a better model.

 

[jayb05]

@cinnamoroll It obviously works for some, and doesn't for others. Some respond better to lower volumes and frequency, higher intensity, and vice versa. You shouldn't do something just because Mike Mentzer did it or whoever else, you are not them.
Test shit out and do what works for you.

 

[cinnamoroll]

@jayb05 I feel like low volume is the only thing I haven't tried out, but it's just so much against how I always have been training and it's hard believing it would work. But you are right, I'll never know if I don't try it.

 

[r3g3nt]

@cinnamoroll I've thought a lot about this, not because I'm near my natty max, but I'm near my max of what I can accomplish in my 40s, while working full time, and having a lot of other interests, some of which clash with bodybuilding in terms of energy requirements/recovery.

To that end, I heard Eric Helms offer an interesting idea on this in a podcast several years ago. Wish I could find it, because he might have provided some nuance that I can't. But what he basically proposed for people that are bumping into their ceilings is to stop trying to train everything and focus on one muscle group.

If you were to suddenly do 30+ sets a weak on chest, you would see gains. Of course this would be intense, and so the offset is lowering (or removing) volume elsewhere.

This isn't forever, as you would eventually start to atrophy. But you can do a 12 week chest specific block, and your other muscle groups will be fine. You'll lose a little strength but you can quickly get it back.

Might be worth a try. I keep proposing this on here to posts like this in the hopes that someone at your level will do it and report back, so this is somewhat self serving.

 

[cinnamoroll]

@r3g3nt I do have a restricted tine schedule as well, but as training is my number one priority (even tho is might not seem that way with my problem taken into consideration) I would be able to prioritize working out for 2 hours each day if I knew this would yield the best results.

Very interesting proposal. I do like the idea of rotating focused muscle groups. But listening to different "experts", dr. Mike Israetel, Jeff Nippard, Eric Helms, the Hubberman podcast, etc, and in the extreme end Mike Mentzer, they all seem to emphasize that more is not always better and I'm therefore hesitant to just bump up the volume. But who knows, it might work so why not try it.

If I decide to give it a go, I will let you know!

 

[r3g3nt]

@cinnamoroll Just a small point to clarify, it’s not just the increased volume. But the increased recovery. If you are taking everything else down to maintenance, your recovery capacity will be much higher. So high volume is workable for a body part.

The advice that people like Nippard give seems intended for most people most of the time.

You’re 15 years in and looking at a rather ugly plateau. Whatever you do, you’ll probably have to go off script a bit.

We don’t have good studies on advanced lifters.

 

[beready]

@cinnamoroll At this point your lifestyle also needs to support your training goals. Also someone who has been training for that long has for sure developed some habits and preferences regarding training. The most serious approach would be to get a trainer.

 

[cinnamoroll]

@beready I totally agree with that. Seems like getting a coach might be the best way forward.

 

[cattat]

@cinnamoroll You’re 80kg and my height.

Sounds like you’re not eating enough. Actually, I can bet you’re not eating enough.

I’m your height but 96kg.

Edit:

I did my conversions wrong, I’m 2 inches taller than you.

Doesn’t change my assertion that you’re not eating enough AND reading the comments, you’re not training legs either. So of course you’re not gaining muscle.

 

[dawn16]

@cattat Ha. I calculated OP at 5’8”. I’m a half inch taller and 14 lbs heavier ON STAGE. You’re spot on.

 

[cinnamoroll]

@dawn16 It doesn't really make sense to compare the two of us when I'm natural and you aren't.