the_creation_center
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@jacob40524 I used to think that only failure was the way to go. Now I’m sitting at around 2RIR and I’m hitting PRs like crazy.
To those of you who feel you've mastered pushing to true failure, do you get grindy reps no matter the exercise?
- Thread starter jacob40524
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ladycherise63
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@the_creation_center Noticing this for my legs especially
@jacob40524 Tbh I don't think pushing to failure is that difficult, once you know the movement it's all down to exercise selection.
When we hit that point where we can't move the weight anymore, it's not actually muscular failure its just the point of maximally perceived effort. Muscle failure as well as coordination, cardio etc all contribute to this as well.
So when you push a set to failure of standing OHP, you're always going to be hitting that point of maximal effort sooner than if you were doing a shoulder press machine that's a lot more stable without such a big coordination and stability demand.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnOPvUYWAAETD0l?format=jpg&name=large
Here's a good illustration. The bigger the green part is the more motor units you'll recruit when you hit that point.
And if you did a standing OHP on roller-skates, you'll probably stopping like 8 RIR every set if you survive.
When we hit that point where we can't move the weight anymore, it's not actually muscular failure its just the point of maximally perceived effort. Muscle failure as well as coordination, cardio etc all contribute to this as well.
So when you push a set to failure of standing OHP, you're always going to be hitting that point of maximal effort sooner than if you were doing a shoulder press machine that's a lot more stable without such a big coordination and stability demand.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnOPvUYWAAETD0l?format=jpg&name=large
Here's a good illustration. The bigger the green part is the more motor units you'll recruit when you hit that point.
And if you did a standing OHP on roller-skates, you'll probably stopping like 8 RIR every set if you survive.
@jacob40524 Not quite sure what you mean by grinding reps. Is this form breaking down and just pushing through with bad form or doing partials?
I think partials done with good form are beneficial when training to failure but I don't enjoy them so I don't do them.
But I do train to failure every exercise and pretty much every set. The way I do it is just start my first set heavy and make the following sets lighter as needed. I have a minimum number of reps I want to hit but keep going till I can't anymore.
Then often for my last set I'll either do a proper drop set or just set the weight super light and do something silly like 25 reps. Purpose of this is just to guarantee a pump and muscle fatigue. I should note I usually don't do this every exercise but always make sure to do it on the last exercise for that particular muscle group that day.
I think partials done with good form are beneficial when training to failure but I don't enjoy them so I don't do them.
But I do train to failure every exercise and pretty much every set. The way I do it is just start my first set heavy and make the following sets lighter as needed. I have a minimum number of reps I want to hit but keep going till I can't anymore.
Then often for my last set I'll either do a proper drop set or just set the weight super light and do something silly like 25 reps. Purpose of this is just to guarantee a pump and muscle fatigue. I should note I usually don't do this every exercise but always make sure to do it on the last exercise for that particular muscle group that day.
@jacob40524 there's a million definitions of failure, it's silly to worry about it too much imo - push hard and ensure your workouts are progressive in some fashion and then recover from that. if you really want to talk about true failure, it'd be something like the full ROM for x weight then once you fail that, shortening that ROM until you can't even move the weight from the full negative an inch, then lowering weight and repeating this all the way down the stack until you can't even move the lightest possible weight an inch. idk anyone who is doing that
i don't grind reps - when going to failure, i'll just shorten my ROM while still going to the full negative until the ROM is basically none. i'd rather work the bottom end of the ROM for a couple more partials than put all that energy into pushing out another concentric which i doubt will produce much growth.
i don't grind reps - when going to failure, i'll just shorten my ROM while still going to the full negative until the ROM is basically none. i'd rather work the bottom end of the ROM for a couple more partials than put all that energy into pushing out another concentric which i doubt will produce much growth.
jacob40524
New member
@jacob40524 As long as you keep your form and proper safety measures are in place, including spotters if dangerous without one, you can go to failure and grind it out.
ladycherise63
New member
@ladycherise63 Its also personal preference, no real right or wrong answer, just opinions. Thanks for being the translator.
ladycherise63
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toughtimesdontlast
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@jacob40524 It depends, sometimes yes sometimes no. I think it's specific to each person but there's a fair share of exercises where my strength just drops off a cliff after 1 rep
stickywicket
New member
@jacob40524 On any lift that it’s safe to do so (NOT the big 3), I’ll keep putting everything I have into that last rep (without moving around, trying to get leverage or break form), until it either starts moving one last time to completion, or the muscle just finally can’t hold it anymore. Like another poster said, there are some lifts that you might get stuck for 10 seconds, then it starts to move again and you get that one last rep. I try to do that with the last set of every exercise.
@jacob40524 O yes I grind for an hour sometimes to get that rep done,it looks like a seizure for people watching
@jacob40524 i don’t like doing a lot of grindy reps. Random theory: The grindier it gets the more it resembles static training, and static training does not yield as good results, anecdotally and according to quite a few papers iirc. Likely true in the opposite direction as well, so trying to work in that happy medium as with most things training-related.
eliashaile
New member
@jacob40524 It's very dependant on the exercise imo. For some reason, I seem to be able to grind more on compounds, presumably because you can recruit other muscles to complete the lift. If my chest gives up on bench for instance, my triceps/front delts can kick in a little extra.
mpowell8089
New member
@jacob40524 I’ve noticed on most exercises the reps slow down and I can really grind out the last few. Sometimes I even surprise myself. Like squats or leg press. Then there are exercises where I just hit a wall unexpectedly, and my reps don’t really slow down. For me that’s always been lying leg curls. I can’t think of many others off the top of my head. Actually, lateral raises and rear Delt flys with dumbbells. I push those sets by doing partials, but my reps don’t really slow down. They do with cables or machines though
elenamaria_9
New member
@jacob40524 Literally went through this today. Did a few sets of 10-12 reps on preacher curls and couldn't cheat if I wanted to; within reason at least.
@jacob40524 yeah on something like lateral raises or most pulling exercises there isnt slow concetric for me, i just cant complete the range of motion.
rijesusfreak
New member
@jacob40524 Depends the exercise, rep range, etc. Sometimes your muscle just go bananas and don’t work anymore.
@jacob40524 I find triceps grind a lot towards lockout, probably this is what you’re feeling with OHP. and as for preachers I think they’re so locked in that nothing can help you cheat, which I think does happen a lot of times even if you can’t feel it