What is your least nasty way to cut?

[andrewss]

So after a year of properly lifting (after years of dicking around), I’ve managed to work my way up to a 1RM of 120kg in deadlifts, 80kg in squats and 65kg in DB press. (Just switched to barbell press.)

It’s absolutely nothing to write home about (I’m 30M, 180cm and 78kg), but I had a few setbacks, namely a dislocated shoulder that put me out of the gym for 2-3 months, and 2 month-long stretches of full time work in construction, during which I was frankly too beat to hit the gym.

Nonetheless, I’ve made some gains, I’m probably the most muscular I’ve ever been (though again, nothing particularly incredible).

However, I’ve gained a decent amount of fat, too, I’d eyeball myself based on reference pictures being at 15-20% BF.

With summer coming up, I feel like cutting down a bit. I just don’t really like the increase in facial fat especially.

Thing is, everyone knows cutting sucks and it’s not easy, there’s no way around it.

In fact, it sucks so much I dread going to the gym now (I’m now trying to eat -500 calories less than usual and lifting 2-3x a week). So my question is; what is the most doable way of cutting, in your opinion?

I’m thinking of switching to taking it slow, focusing on eating almost fully WFPB if I can and reducing my lifting to once a week of heavy compound lifts and cycling recreationally nigh-everyday if I can.

I know it’s not perhaps exact enough, but I know myself - I won’t be weighing food and counting calories exactly every day, but cutting out all processed crap and avoiding fatty foods I can do relatively effortlessly. I figure if I keep that up for 2 months I should have some decent results, but I don’t know, in all honesty. I’ve never done this before.

Any tips? What works for you? What keeps you sticking to a cut? Any advice is welcome.

 

[worriedmom1968]

@andrewss Well first off, don’t drop to one day a week of lifting. Lifting is a cutting cheat code since the calorie burn for muscle repair continues for the next day or two after your workout. I’d continue your lifting regimen, bump up cardio on top of it, bump up your protein intake a little (1.6-2g/kg during a cut it what I strive for) and try to eat clean otherwise. Track your weight every morning when you wake up, and if -500cal isn’t “cutting” it, increase the deficit by 100-200cal.

Vary the cardio too. Go for a run one day, bike ride the next, hit a row, go do an hour of yoga. Keep it interesting.

While weightlifting, try super setting and getting your heart rate up.

 

[andrewss]

@worriedmom1968 Thanks!

I usually go for 110-130g of protein atm, I’m a bit hesitant about bumping it up further because as a vegan eating clean, low-calorie + 140g+ of protein actually seems quite tough. I feel I’d only be drinking shakes, eating seitan, maybe some vegetables and almost no grains, fruits or fatty foods like avocado or nuts & seeds at all, or am I making it seem worse than it is?

Tracking weight & varying cardio are definitely good ideas. Super setting would also save some time so that’s something I’ll certainly have to incorporate in my plan.

I’ll try and avoid any kind of dirty bulk moving forward. I used to be borderline underweight at 18 but now my weight has steadily been going up, and unfortunately I’ve sort of passed the sweet spot. Losing weight, especially while trying to maintain muscle is just straight up not fun, there’s not really any way around it it seems.

 

[worriedmom1968]

@andrewss I simply make sure 500 or so of my calories per day are from fruits and veggies. Two protein shakes is 50g of protein and only ~250 calories. I incorporate flax and chia seeds into breakfast where I can. Making up the other ~1000 calories and 30-40g protein isn’t too bad with tofu, beans, lentils, or seitan.

Soy curls and TVP are your best friend too!

I also do honestly think a “soft” cheat day (eat at maintenance or up to 500cal above, allowing a meal out or a drink or something) once per week goes a long way to making a cut psychologically manageable. Especially if you’re cutting for longer than 2 months.

 

[packingpadre]

@worriedmom1968 What is super setting?

 

[worriedmom1968]

@packingpadre Two different back to back exercises, that you alternate between sets. For instance, on arm day, you might super set bicep curls with a tricep exercise like pull downs. Or a back exercise with a chest. It’s very easy to superset pretty much any exercise with an ab exercise. Just don’t super set the same muscle group.

It makes your workouts quicker too (and more tiring). Especially if you do a triple super set.

Super Sets

 

[packingpadre]

@worriedmom1968 Oh yes, okay. Thank you, very helpful!

 

[revrayh]

@andrewss I’d drop to 200-300 calorie deficit and make sure you have a snack before the gym and a protein shake while you’re there. I find anticipating hunger helps stave it off. I also eat when I’m hungry which leads me to being done with dinner earlier, like 4-6pm. If I’m really hungry before bed I’ll have a peanut butter date (about 100 cal) and that helps. You could also diet only on non gym days.

 

[andrewss]

@revrayh Yeah that’s a great point! I’ll just have a pre-workout banana like before. I’ve skimped out on it now but it’s no good, it might actually be a pretty big factor as to why these workouts while cutting have felt so unbearably lethargic and weak.

I’ve usually drank a shake right after my workout, do you feel having it during helps your energy levels/hunger a lot?

 

[revrayh]

@andrewss Yes! One thing I’ve learned this year is that I was stressing out my body at the gym and hot yoga but not being well fueled. In yoga I’ll drink a coconut water which is 200 cal and eat 300-550 cal an hour and a half before class. I burn about 500 cal in class. As for the gym, ideally I’ll be ready to go and will bring a shake that’s 30-50g protein. I try to eat 2k cal a day with a 250 deficit. But anyways I try to eat 1/3-1/2 of the calories I think I’m going to burn. This helps with a better workout and not being too tired after.

 

[wolmart]

@andrewss Count calories for a week or two, but do not count veg. Unless it's you're carbs, like potatoes. I'm in a 300 odd calorie deficit at the moment but feeling ok because I am bulking everything up with the likes of mushrooms, spinach, peppers, broccoli and lots of tasty seasoning.

Allow for "treats". I have one toast with chocolate spread along with one with cucumber and salt. The chocolate then has, so far, made me not crave it and gorge on it.

If you're too tired, reduce the deficit. Your body will probably override your willpower and end up binging.

 

[enealey]

@andrewss I front load a lot of protein first meal of the day. 40-50g protein. That sets me up for the whole day to keep my hunger in check and I feel steady and not up and down with hunger or cravings.

 

[aptiv245]

@andrewss If you have some extra money and are near a city, you could probably get a DEXA scan. I got one a few weeks ago and learned that my bf% was 5% higher than my estimate.

The only reason I’m bringing this up is because it was enlightening and helped me understand where I’m at and how to get where I want to be. It can also help you understand if you need more protein than you are already consuming; I think studies advise consuming 1.6-2.2g/kg of lean body mass. And on top of that, the scan will also examine bone health, fat distribution, and muscle symmetry.

To answer your original question, I add more cardio. Right now, I’m eating maintenance but slowly upping my running distance to burn more calories. I do it this way because that means I can still feel satiated and sane, albeit with the loss of time. That also means I don’t have to have more than one serving of seitan or multiple protein shakes in a day (not that there’s anything particularly bad, it’s just not my style).

 

[samwente]

@andrewss Your lifting routine is not clear (other than weekly frequency), but you are training heavy compound lifts max weight for one rep? That might be sub-optimal in many ways, including recovery. Those exercises at those low-rep put a serious strain on the body, even when you are your best.

 

[andrewss]

@samwente I do reverse pyramid type training. The 1RM is just what my fitness app predicts is my 1RM based on my exercise data - I've tested it out and it seems pretty bang on.

For every exercise, I do 6 sets, 2 for warm-up, 2 for strength, and 2 to get some volume in, roughly like this;

Warmup:

• 5 x 25% 1RM
• 5 x 65% 1RM

Strength:

• 4-6x 90% 1RM
• 4-6x 90% 1RM

Volume:

• 6-8x 75% 1RM
• 8-10x 50% 1RM

I’ll do this for 4-6 exercises, starting always with main compound lifts (squat/deadlift/chest press), and then add other exercises in like incline DB press, rows, tricep pulldown, calf raises, etc, making sure to hit every main muscle group once per workout.

I keep track of progress in the Hevy app and have my workouts split in 3 different full-body workouts I cycle through 2-3 times a week, depending on how busy and accustomed to DOMS I am.

So far this has been the best workout I’ve ever done in terms of being able to stick to it and consistently progress.

I try to improve in some metric on every exercise every time if I can. If I can't go up in weight, I'll try to go up in volume.

 

[abella30]

@andrewss Water fast for a week or two. You won’t lose any muscle, and after the first two days you’ll lose about a pound of fat per day. Done and done!

 

[jota05]

@andrewss no grains replace carbs with potatoes and sweet potatoes

 

[howeryall]

@andrewss Mate no offence, but with your stats a cut will just result in you looking skinny. Your lifts are still in beginner territory.

 

[andrewss]

@howeryall None taken, that’s absolutely fair. I had planned to be further ahead at this point, my injury and unexpected overwork threw off my progress a fair bit.

I guess my late teens-mid twenties life I’ve been used to being really skinny at 60-68kg, being almost 80kg now feels oddly wrong and unhealthy. Used to have a lot of vascularity on my arms and a sharp jawline, and this little double chin and lovehandles that are coming in (despite having a broader back and shoulders now) is just throwing me off.

I could absolutely keep on bulking to improve my stats but I’m afraid of putting on even more fat, I feel uncomfortable the way my shirts are starting to put my lower belly fat on display and how ’soft’ my arms look, despite them being bigger and stronger.

I feel if I cut down to 70-72kg with my current stats I reckon I’ll have lost a decent amount of fat and would feel better motivated to start a bulk again in August and moving my lifts into intermediate territory over the winter.

If it seems foolish I’m open to taking a different approach, though.