Cardio vs Calorie Deficit while Cutting

[nikkideamus]

@brokenjoker For most dudes 1500 calories a day is not sustainable - By the time you've eaten the protein you need, and the nutritious food sources you need to meet nutrient intakes, you're often very close to or above this number. at 160lbs and as a beginner, yeah, this can be pretty hard and 1500cal isnt unheard of for a smaller man to cut on. In your case, you might need a bit of cardio.

I can lose quite a bit of weight on 0 cardio - but I'm 225lbs, my maintenance calories are over 3000, so this fundamentally changes the game for me. I can drop 500 calories from my diet and create a deficit by simply not forcing myself to eat meal 4.

Who you are, your work capacity, and what your goals are have a complicated relationship with how much cardio you should or should not be doing.

To be clear though, you probably should be doing *some* cardio for your health all year, regardless of your weight changes. The answer lies somewhere in the middle - do a good 20 minute brisk walk every day, at the very least.

"(I know this is primarily wrong since the rule of thumb is that cardio should be half of the time you spend weight training)." This advice is a half-truth, its probably fine for most people, but if you ever want to compete in bodybuilding, you will definitely go well over this.

 

[summer313]

@brokenjoker Since most bodybuilders on social media are not natural, I don’t think you should take them as reference.

If you do cardio in your fat burning zone then you would lose fat more rapidly than by just consuming less calories. So do cardio.

Cardio while bulking? Again bulking is not exactly a thing in natural bodybuilding (come and downvote me for this). The most important thing for building muscle is rest, so instead of thinking of bulking like consuming 3,000 calories, just take 100-200 more than your maintenance.

And yes do cardio always, always. You won’t build muscle only of course if you do cardio for 2-3 hours each day

 

[johnyjohnjohnjoseph]

@summer313

bulking is not exactly a thing in natural bodybuilding

Ok, I'll bite.

Why would you say something like this?

 

[summer313]

@johnyjohnjohnjoseph How do you know when to stop bulking? Best case by measuring your muscle %, how do you know that taking a lot of calories actually is the reason your muscle increased and not just normal training?

Muscle growing depends a lot on rest and genetics and takes a lot of time, perhaps the reason natural lifters think that their bulking leads to grow is because since doing it they started to measure their percentages.

People that take measures consistently see consistent grow (and following a regime of course)

Bulking is what people on steroids do to maximize their cicles, that’s why they know when to cut.

 

[dawn16]

@summer313 What do you define as bulking?

Edit: I see your other response. You stop the bulk when you’re either at your goal physique or get too fat. At some point, almost every lifter will need to bulk (ie eat in a surplus, that’s all “bulk” means). New muscle isn’t synthesized out of thin air. You need calories.

 

[brokenjoker]

@summer313 I make sure to follow natural body builders only. And bulking is definitely something natural body builders do.

 

[summer313]

@brokenjoker https://seannal.com/articles/nutrition/best-bulking-diet.php

Here is what a real natural bodybuilder says on “bulking”.

I know many “natural” influencers, and they are natural right now meaning they’re not taking steroids at the moment, or have been natural for 3+ years and unfortunately that’s the definition of natural for many.

 

[dawn16]

@summer313 Did you read this article? The whole thing covers how to bulk. Nowhere does it say natural lifters shouldn’t bulk. In fact, its message is the exact opposite.

 

[summer313]

@dawn16 You just read the headline. Here are some things in the article:

‘the dietary factors that you actually need to focus on in order to gain muscle effectively are pretty simple and straightforward.’

‘In fact, I’d go as far as to say this…

As long as you’re consuming a balanced mix of high quality protein, carbohydrates and fats throughout the day and are hitting your overall calorie target for muscle growth with decent accuracy, you’re already doing 90%+ of what you need to in order to maximize your muscle gains.

It’s not that calories are the only thing that matters. You of course need to be consuming sufficient protein each day in order to build muscle optimally, as well as sufficient fat to ensure that testosterone levels remain in the ideal range.

However, as long as you’re eating a relatively balanced diet and are not going out of your way to restrict any particular macronutrient, you’ll usually end up hitting your minimum requirements for each one without even really trying.’

 

[dawn16]

@summer313 I read the whole thing. You can stuff the condescending presumptuous attitude, especially because you are hilariously wrong. You are misunderstanding the article, including the exact section you are quoting. It’s saying that you don’t need to be precise with your macros or calories when bulking unless you’re advanced. It’s not saying not to bulk at all. The article uses the term bulk more than ten times, and never once does it say not to bulk. The thesis of the article is right here: “Structuring an effective bulking diet is NOT rocket science, and obsessing over every little detail will likely just burn you out without delivering any significant additional results anyway.”

 

[summer313]

@dawn16 I never claimed the article says not to bulk. The thesis is that bulking is not so hard, is just a small calorie surplus, 300 for beginners, 200 for intermediates and 100 for advance lifters.
300 calories for a beginner is nothing cause they’re just starting to exercise and most likely have never counted calories, those extra calories could be just for avoiding the hunger that may come to beginners when first exercising.

And 200 and 100 calories for “”bulking”” in intermediates and advance is absolutely nothing, 200-300 calories is what u burn in 20 minutes of light cardio on an elliptical machine.

So what can you take from the article?? That u shouldn’t worry, just worry about hitting your macros and that’s all. Worrying for 300 more calories is absurd for anyone who follows a decent/basic exercise program.

So bulking is just a very small calorie surplus, really so small that anyone knowing their macros and counting their calorie intake are already doing most of what u need to build muscle…unless of course you are on some kind of performance drug and u better eat a lot to maximize ur gains during that period…

 

[dawn16]

@summer313 Your initial comment said “bulking is not exactly a thing in natural bodybuilding,” then cited that article as proof.

You claim the article says you should “just worry about hitting your macros.”

It says the opposite: “as long as you’re eating a relatively balanced diet and are not going out of your way to restrict any particular macronutrient, you’ll usually end up hitting your minimum requirements for each one without even really trying.”

“However, if your main goal is to pack on size and you’re eating in a calorie surplus, the macro numbers will usually just take care of themselves on their own.”

“tracking exact macros on a bulking diet is typically unnecessary”

“Although you’ll hear all sorts of guidelines outlining what the best bulking macros are for gaining muscle, the truth is that exact protein/carb/fat distribution isn’t something the average lifter needs to precisely track …”

The article also says nothing about the calorie surplus numbers you’re citing. 100 calories is nothing; it’s well within the margin of error for food labeling.

Everything you have said about the article and bulking is wrong.

 

[summer313]

@dawn16 Here are the calories as stated in the article:

‘Here’s an approximate guideline you can follow:

Beginners: Add 300 calories to your maintenance level.
Intermediates: Add 200 calories to your maintenance level.
Advanced: Add 100 calories to your maintenance level.’

The paragraphs ur sharing confirm what I’ve been saying. And yes, bulking is not really a thing for natural lifters if u consider that 100 to 300 surplus calories are so insignificant that one shouldn’t worry.

 

[dawn16]

@summer313 Point taken. Still disagree. Cheers.

 

[oscarwip]

@brokenjoker The decision to add in more cardio or decrease food should be based on which of the two is less fatiguing for you. If you hit a wall with weight loss and are already on very few calories, then reducing food might be too difficult for you, so you might add some additional cardio. If you're on high food, you might just decide to reduce food a bit without adding in more cardio.

There's something to be said about a high energy flux state, where due to high activity/cardio, you're able to cut at a higher calorie intake. That somehow lends to better satiety and hunger signalling during the cut.

 

[rudolph]

@brokenjoker Good luck on your journey first of all.
Personally I like to lover my calories and get my cardio through walking (10k a day average), I find it to be the least fatiguing form of cardio for me. Try to introduce cardio as you are starting to get stale results from only calories alone.
Get your protein high-ish not something like 3g per lb that is insane and not needed, keep your fats at reasonable level as without them you are not going to function correctly and your hormones will get fucked up. As for carbs, fill them in to fit the calories, carbs are energy. Also it would be good to separate your weights from your cardio session. If you wanna know anything else feel free to ask . Wish you all the best.

 

[mssurrendered1]

@brokenjoker Depends on context but during my whole prep I haven't done any cardio but 15000 steps and lowered my calorie intake from 3300kcal to 2700

Also I do bike to work every day but I do not count that as a cardio