Getting burnt out on CF and thinking of switching it up a bit (advice needed!

[virginity]

I know this TYPE of question is asked frequently, but I haven't seen any real info on this in particular:

I'm 35, 5'8", 165#, with an athletic background playing hockey and soccer. I was a marathon and half marathon runner for a long time but switched to Crossfit about 6 years ago to save my knees from blowing out all of the time. I then found Crossfit Endurance and have been basically doing a CFE template in my home gym for the last 2 years now (running a couple of half marathons in the process)...something like this: Strength/WOD 5x week, running intervals in the evenings 3x week.

However, my strength has never really improved, I'm assuming because of the volume (my diet is okay, but I'm only able to sleep 4-6 hours a night). Also, I'm getting a little bored of the standard CF stuff and want to switch to refresh.

So, I've been lurking and found some things that may work:

-nSuns or 5/3/1 BBB

-Tactical Barbell (I'm leaning toward this right now)

-Functional BB (Marcus Filly's Awaken Training), but this is only open in April and it's fairly expensive

These look like they can help, but I'm getting lost, since this type of training has never been in my wheelhouse (I'm used to hockey training, CF, and endurance training, not actual gym stuff). My questions are these:

1. How do I structure the program at home without access to a whole bunch of equipment? I have an oly bar, squat rack, flat bench, a bunch of bumpers and reg plates, a rower, and only 2 pair of dumbbells. Or do I have to go to an actual gym?
2. If I go these routes, do I have to give up running or HIIT entirely?
3. Are two-a-days in lifting still a thing? I've been doing running intervals on M-W-F for so long now that it seems crazy to give it up...although I'm sure my body will appreciate it since I'm dead most of the time.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

 

[sarahjamison19]

@virginity

However, my strength has never really improved, I'm assuming because of the volume (my diet is okay, but I'm only able to sleep 4-6 hours a night). Also, I'm getting a little bored of the standard CF stuff and want to switch to refresh.

intelligent program design cannot supersede proper recovery protocols. no program you pick is going to overcome your systematic under-recovery. eat better and sleep more.

 

[labryan]

@sarahjamison19 4-6 hours isn't just underrecovery. It is systematic sleep deprivation and a huge health risk on par with smoking daily.

He's right OP.

 

[virginity]

@labryan Thanks for that. I've always had a tough time sleeping, my body doesn't calm down long enough. I take something for it now (Klonopin) but the best I can manage is 4-6.

 

[dawn16]

@sarahjamison19

eat better

Eat more. Also, OP, if your goal is strength why the hell are you even doing CrossFit? CrossFit is a sport, not a strength program. Even if you do strength work before a WoD, you'd be much better served by just doing a standard 3-4 day/week, programmed strength training program--but it seems like you're going in that direction, although it's unclear if that's just out of boredom.

Running and WODs will just undermine your ability to recover the strength work and will not increase your health whatsoever. (Indeed, running will most likely do more joint harm than cardiovascular good.) Training decent endurance can happen in a couple of months, training decent strength literally takes years--stupid to constantly undermine your strength progression with endurance work where you've essentially hit your peak endurance capacity anyway long ago.

Anyway, 165# men at 5'8" are not strong. So that's your first problem to sort.

I hear this fucking strength stagnant CrossFit shit all the time. When will people realize that if you want to get strong, doing CrossFit is literally a waste of your time compared to FAR more effective, established methods. "Yeah, I'll get stronger by doing some different WoD every fucking time, or doing different strength work every fucking time." It's just retarded--humans get strong by progressively and consistently increasing the the stress (i.e. weight) they subject their bodies to. The only way to reliably do this is with a planned, REPETITIVE, strength program. The very NATURE of CrossFit undermines the process by which all humans get properly strong. You will never be properly strong from just CrossFit, ever. It has never happened and it will never happen.

As for your programs: of the programs you've listed that I'm familiar with, they're all intermediate+ programs. Why don't you take advantage of the fact that you're more likely a strength novice and do a proper linear progression program like Starting Strength? Why would you do slow-as-fuck-all 5/3/1 when you could improve 4x faster on SS and literally PR every workout for a few months?

Tactical barbell sounds like some military-esque pandering for far-too-patriotic Americans. Not sure why you're even considering that trash.

 

[virginity]

@dawn16 You're fun.

 

[gendandy]

@virginity Sounds like your just not getting the proper calories and rest.

You are over doing it with the running intervals and extra cardio.

My adivce is stick to a strength program. Eat more then you are now. Get good rest.

 

[lalynx]

@virginity Have you heard of power athlete? They might be worth looking into, field strong is focused towards arbor rec development so there are designated strength days as well as sprinting/speed days with Wednesday being optional for longer cardio. There's some good heavy breathing as well as some old school bodybuilding in there too

 

[wangsamax]

@virginity I ran 531 a few years ago. I was struggling with overall strength myself at that time. I found it to be a great program. Under the program, my BS went from 225 to 295. My DL went from 345 to 385. My press only went from 115# to 135#. Not very strong overhead even to this day. Anyway, I'd highly recommend it. I ran it along side crossfit.com. The volume of 531 is pretty low so you can do most metcons right along side it.

 

[labryan]

@wangsamax For how long did you do 5/3/1?

225->295 are the average gains on 5RM from a little over a month on Starting Strength Novice Linear Progression. 225 and 295 are low squat numbers even in CrossFit, do Starting Strength Novice/Beginner progression by the letter for 6 months and you'll have a 330-350lbs 5RM squat almost for certain, if your squat is anywhere near as low as 220 right now.

I was once also uninformed about Strength Training protocols too and did 5/3/1 for 13 months. Later, I did various portions of the Starting Strength protocol (Novice->Late Novice->Intermediate with Texas Method) and made about twice the gains I made on 5/3/1 in half the time, while simultaneously doing tons of monostructural conditioning.

5/3/1 is intended and periodised for advanced lifters who aren't able to recover in days or even 1-2 weeks, but only in about a month. It is an extremely slow and inefficient protocol for guys who aren't already squatting 500lbs.

5/3/1 is not a bad strength program - in fact it is superb for advanced lifters who are already strong wanting to stay strong without spending a lot of time/effort, but it isn't even near top 5 for anyone wanting to get strong. I am so sad to see how so many people who have just heard of strength protocols always hear of 5/3/1 and completely miss the point of it.

 

[wangsamax]

@labryan I did it for either an 8 week or 12 week block, I can't remember. I think it was only 8. It was when I first started Crossfit, so these numbers are really old. I've seen better gains from a steady weightlifting program, so I get what you're saying. There are better programs out there. I'll never deny that, but when running alongside crossfit 531 tends to reduce the amount of volume so you can do both while getting your numbers up a bit. Keep in mind, I was building strength along with improving my gymnastics and my engine. So, for me, it was a decent program for what my needs at the time. It is not a one size fits all approach.

 

[labryan]

@wangsamax The gains on the 5/3/1 program is set to 5lbs a month per standard. So if you did the program as prescribed 70lbs increase is 13 months of 5/3/1. Which is a whole shitton of gains if that 70lbs takes you from a 430 1RM back squat to a 500 1RM back squat, but absolutely nothing if you go from 225 to 295. Which is of course my entire point.

You might've done it in a way more drastic manner of course - all the power to you for realising you needed to do that then!

I see the argument for the low volume of 5/3/1 being ideal for maintaining high RMs whilst doing CrossFit. I've made that theoretically myself, but I've seen myself fail twice with it now and both seen and heard others do it as well. Both times I tried to transition to 5/3/1, I lost 25-40lbs in my 5RM on back squat across 2-3 months (usually, 2-3 months equals a gain of more than 25lbs in 5RM on the protocol I was using when I transitioned each time, so the net loss is actually upwards of 50-80lbs on my 5RM back squat!). My upper body movements didn't lose nearly as much, more like 10lbs instead of gaining 15lbs in the same time. My deadlift never went down, though, which reminds me of how I was always able to increase my deadlift on 5/3/1 but started stalling on the squat, press and bench when I originally did it before I knew my way around strength training.

I've paired SS LP and then Texas Method with CrossFit over the last 20 months and I've improved steadily from 75th percentile on average in the 2017 Open to 94th or higher percentile in the 2019 open. My squat has gone up from a 286lbs 5RM to a 405lbs 5RM and a 500lbs 1RM. And I'm a pretty regular wanna-be athlete who doesn't sleep enough due to having small children. It isn't impossible volume to fit around at all, but sure, one ends up spending the majority of the time on lifting.

I've come to the conclusion that 5/3/1 isn't even a good program to maintain strength on when I transition to focusing on METCONs rather than mostly lifting again this August after 2 years of getting strong enough for the sport. That doesn't mean I generally consider it bad. But one squat day a week is simply not enough in my eyes.

 

[wangsamax]

@labryan I get what you're saying. And that is a nice back squat!! 531 may have been beneficial to me because I was just starting out and riding the gain train that most people get when they start from basically nothing. I've seen 531 work for other people so I still think it is a decent program to run along side crossfit for general strength. But, I agree, if you're trying to get hella strong, this is probably not the best program out there. There are a lot better ones. As for OP, he's trying to switch things up. 531 may be a good program to run to get yourself out of the every day rut and not beat you down as much as other programs out there.

 

[labryan]

@wangsamax I agree, I just see 5/3/1 so often being mentioned when other programs should be higher up the list and I wanted to help others not waste the time I did (given my goals of course). Thanks for a good debate.

P.s. thanks for the compliment, I was trying to prove a point as far as anecdotal evidence goes - not dig for compliments, but still!

 

[dawn16]

@labryan

405lbs 5RM and a 500lbs 1RM

Guessing you just made up that 1RM. Literally a 25% increase. E-stating or severely understating your 5RM.

 

[coloradogrrrl21]

@virginity

1. Do you have a squat rack? You will need one if you want to do these strength training programs at home.
2. In 5/3/1, Wendler gives a whole workout plan that includes both strength training and conditioning. He said that he got tired of being able to squat 800 but being unable to tie his shoes without being out of breath.
   
3. Do you mean training more than one lift a day?
   

Also, on any strength training programs, you definitely need to sleep more than 4-6 hours a night. Recovery is as important as the time that you spend lifting, and decent sleep is one of the foundations of adequate recovery.

 

[labryan]

@coloradogrrrl21 Notice how Wendler was squatting 800lbs when he designed that program for himself?

A program for an 800lbs squatter is NOT the most ideal program for a 200-300lbs squatter, that's just a logical reality of science of strength and conditioning.

5/3/1 is not a good program for someone who isn't already very strong.

 

[psychologymom]

@virginity I kind of design my own lifting program with multiple methods mixed. I do conjugate method for strength, which you can find plenty of programs on that. I only do main lift for that. I do CrossFit WOD's from several sources that go along with what day I'm doing. Some include: CrossFit chalk, comptrain, misfit, etc.

I also started doing functional bodybuilding as well mixed in.

I don't do a metcon everyday if I am doing FBB that day but still do a CrossFit WOD like 3-4 days a week.

I enjoy bc it's everything I like, which is very broad. I don't think there is a one sit fits all program out there so I just make it up myself. It took a little fine tuning but I enjoy it now.

 

[johnabraham]

@virginity Your goals clearly show that CF isn’t the best way to achieve them.

You should get into the gym and work on strength. PPL, PHAT/PHUL, nSuns, 5/3/1, there’s a lot to choose from. Pick one that works best for your lifestyle and stick with it, eating in a surplus to gain muscle mass.

If you can do this at your CF box, perfect. But I find that CF doesn’t have some of the machines I like to use for some accessory work, and open gym time is limited. You can fill in a WOD on off days if your body feels good but I would focus on strength for a few months and see where that leads you. Eat a lot, get good rest, and go hard on your workout days and you’ll see results.

 

[jeremypicket]

@virginity I'd look into the Bridge by Barbell Medicine. It's a free 8 week program.

It's strength focused (Squat, Bench, Deadlift,) but it contains 2 days of general physical preparedness a week, plus a space for arms and abs.

It's written by a couple of Drs who used to work for Starting Strength, realized some of that organizations methodology was a little iffy, so built their own thing based on science and experience.

I've run it twice and loved every minute of it.