I bulked 4 months, then cut for 2.5, and I'm back where I started

[thecrocoduck]

I've been lifting for 2 years now, and have become frustrated with my lack of growth. My lifts are in the Intermediate range, but I think I should be gaining muscle a lot faster, and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

I'm 5'11", 165lbs, relatively lean (you can see my abs, but not the bottom two really). Anyway, back in November I started a "slow bulk" where I was putting on about 2lbs a month. I did this for around 4 months, putting on a total of 9lbs. My bench, shoulder press, and weighted pull up improved a bit during this time. I then started a cut, which I've been doing for almost 2.5 months now, and I've lost about 10lbs. I'm about the same body fat level as I was pre-bulk (I judge my cut length based on visual body fat levels and measuring my waist). So basically, I'm the same weight as before I bulked, and didn't gain any muscle/size. So, essentially spinning my wheels for over 6 months.

I had a similar problem a year ago when I bulked, where I put on more fat than muscle. I am doing what I believe is an optimal weekly volume (9 working sets for the major body parts each week). The only thing I can think to try to start gaining size/muscle mass is to increase volume, and I think the best way to do that is increasing frequency. Is this the best choice? During my bulk I was working out 3x a week (Chest/Tris, Back/Bis, Shoulders/Legs). I like my current routine, but I'm not seeing the gains I think I should be getting. I'm thinking about doing PHUL. Is this a good route to take for me, or should I just add additional sets to my current routine to get more volume?

 

[sam8322]

@thecrocoduck Well one thing to think about is that the exact volume everyone needs is totally different. I have been working out for many years so my threshold for fatigue is higher, but I will usually work out 5-6 days a week and get in 16-20 sets, sometimes higher, with 9-12 of those being heavy 5s and 6s on big compounds and the rest 8-10 range. sometimes I'll do as many as 24 sets if I have time. As I said, I have been working out a long time, but I think you're volume and frequency should go up.

 

[dawn16]

@thecrocoduck If I had to wager, I'd say you're probably unhappy with your results because 1). That is very low volume and frequency, and 2). 4 months is a very short bulk.

 

[thecrocoduck]

@dawn16 Is the volume really that low? I admit the frequency is, but I thought volume seemed good. I did a 6-month bulk last year but had a similar issue where I put on more fat than muscle

 

[dawn16]

@thecrocoduck 9 sets per week is really low in my opinion. You could quadruple that and I would still not say that it is a lot.

 

[thecrocoduck]

@dawn16 Ok thanks. I'm going to try raising my volume a lot during the next bulk

 

[darrin71]

@thecrocoduck Increase your volume. Are you hitting each muscle group twice a week?

 

[thecrocoduck]

@darrin71 No I typically hit each muscle group directly once a week. There is some indirect work when I do the 3x or 5x week split, though. For example shoulders get hit on shoulder day, obviously, but also on chest day

 

[ugly]

@thecrocoduck You probably didn't have enough protein when you cut and loss muscle mass? Did your main lifts go down?

 

[thecrocoduck]

@ugly It's possible, but I eat at least .82g/lb of protein when cutting. Some of my lifts go down a little bit right at the beginning of a cut, but others don't. Either way, they slowly increase while cutting, or stay put. I don't lose reps during the cutting itself

 

[jb131]

@thecrocoduck consider trying a PPL (PPL x2 per week, so 6 workouts a week) and bulk for a full year.

make sure you are getting at least .8 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight a day.

 

[thecrocoduck]

@jb131 How fast should I gain weight on a year bulk? I feel like it would have to be ridiculously slow to not get fat. Yes, I get at least .82g protein per lb each day

 

[jb131]

@thecrocoduck most shoot for around a pound a week while keeping an eye on body fat. generally you would calculate your TDEE and shoot for 3-500 calories a day above that, adjusting up or down as needed.

i personally like this site becuase you can include various formulas to get an averaged TDEE. helps if you have a decent estimate of current bf%.

http://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/

you are going to lose some muscle when you cut. so cutting to soon is going to result in what you went through. when you do cut, don't go to extreme. reverse the process of reducing calories y 3-500 per day.

 

[thecrocoduck]

@jb131 Thanks. My first bulk I went for about a pound a week for 6 months. I put on about 20lbs, but once I cut back down, I saw that most of that 20lbs had been fat. I definitely don't want to do that again. That's why I went with a slower bulk this time.

 

[micah111]

@thecrocoduck Given actual rates of muscle gain are only going to be something like 0.5-1% total body weight per month as an intermediate, I don't think gaining much more than this per month is a good idea, as it'll just be fat. I generally recommend a weight gain of 1-3lbs per month (or 1/4 to 3/4 lb per week). Gain closer to 3lbs as a beginner, closer to 1lb as an advanced lifter.

I think the 2lbs per month you were aiming for was fine. This is definitely a training issue.

 

[thecrocoduck]

@micah111 Thanks. I agree that 2lbs/month is a good goal for someone with my experience based on everything I've seen/read, so I think you are probably right about it being training issue. I'm going to increase frequency and/or volume during the next bulk. Which would you go for? I currently do 9 heavy sets, once a week per major body part. I'm actually pretty happy with my chest size at the moment. My most lagging part is my arms (which are less than 14"). For now, I'm going to just keep cutting and then maintain for the summer since I'm not losing strength during this cut

 

[micah111]

@thecrocoduck Definitely up frequency to 2x/week, per muscle group. Likely an increase in volume is needed as well. Just don't go crazy with it, increase volume gradually. I think something like PHUL would work well, just starting at the lower end of the volume recommendation.

 

[steps_2_fitness]

@thecrocoduck Can you Squat/Bench/Deadlift more than 225/110/250?

YES: Next question

NO: Starting Strength

Can you Squat/Bench/Deadlift more than 315/200/350?

YES: Next Question

NO: Strong lifts 5x5 with bodybuilding accessories (Don't over do it)

Can you Squat/Bench/Deadlift more than 405/315/500?

Yes: You may have a bright future as a powerlifter or if you lean out you should be decently sized at this point.

NO: 3 recommendations:

1.) Bill Starr 5x5 for bodybuilders

2.) Texas method with appropriate accessories

3.) Hypertrophy specific training

Can you Squat/Bench/Deadlift more than 500/405/600?

YES: Why are you asking for advice, you should be giving it.

NO: Whilst focusing on the big three are important having bigger biceps are importanter

EDIT: Just a basic guide on cookie cutter programs

 

[upperrom]

@thecrocoduck Do you squat or Deadlift? What are your major lifts at? I ask because muscle is a byproduct of strength. You simply need to get strong before worrying about cutting.

 

[thecrocoduck]

@upperrom Yes, I do those lifts. However, I didn't deadlift much during the bulk bc I had a sore muscle in my low back and didn't want to aggravate it, so I replaced it with extra pull ups. My bench, shoulder press, and pull up all got stronger during the bulk, and yet I didn't put on any size. I think my strength gains compared to the weight I gained must have been a poor ratio (for whatever reason). My major lifts are within the Intermediate range relative to body weight. I focus on building strength, but it's not coming as fast as I think it should, which made me think I should add more volume.