@love2travel Great vid, thank you
Lateral Raises at the end of every workout
- Thread starter patdude832
- Start date
quicknthedead
New member
@patdude832 I’m experimenting with this as well. Currently my schedule is 6 days/week (back/quads/upper/glutes/back/shoulders). I’m prepping for my first show and feel like my arms and shoulders are lagging, so I’m adding side delts to the end of my non-shoulder days and bis/tris to the end of the other days. Hopefully it’ll make a difference! Curious how long it took you to see improvement?
patdude832
New member
@quicknthedead Nice good luck! If you're prepping/cutting, obviously it should be harder, but I think you can still make some gains because that Frequency will be such a novel stimulus.
For me after about 3-4 months of consistent near-daily Laterals, followed by a 5 day vacation, when I came back... Wow! It was like my body was fundamentally different.
For me after about 3-4 months of consistent near-daily Laterals, followed by a 5 day vacation, when I came back... Wow! It was like my body was fundamentally different.
quicknthedead
New member
@patdude832 Happy to know you saw a change in that amount of time! I have recently (September) returned to working out after a bad injury that required surgery and months of immobility, so I’m banking on some “newbie gains” still in the tank, but we’ll see…do you just do dumbbell lat raises or do you incorporate any variations? How many sets/rep range?
patdude832
New member
@quicknthedead On Shoulder day I do progressive Volume and try to beat whatever I did last week. I measure Poundage actually, weight x sets x reps, usually 8 sets or so. I just force out an extra 1-3 reps per session, rest pauses if need be.
In Mesocycle fashion I'll likely deload to less sets at some point and build back up the progression if it gets stale (or if I end up needing too many sets/time). But for months it's been straight steady progress every week.
Then on the other days end of workouts it's really free form, like 4 sets of whatever variation I'm feeling or is available, typically bit lighter load with a focus on pump and enjoyment. I remembered that Upright Rows existed so I might try those today, just pump in some blood and work a slightly different movement angle. Other variations I like are DB Laterals with more internal rotation, Seated Laterals, machines, cables, etc.
Having some variety and enjoyment is a bit underrated I think, especially when it contributes volume to your focus. But that Weekly progression day is really what ties it all together imo.
In Mesocycle fashion I'll likely deload to less sets at some point and build back up the progression if it gets stale (or if I end up needing too many sets/time). But for months it's been straight steady progress every week.
Then on the other days end of workouts it's really free form, like 4 sets of whatever variation I'm feeling or is available, typically bit lighter load with a focus on pump and enjoyment. I remembered that Upright Rows existed so I might try those today, just pump in some blood and work a slightly different movement angle. Other variations I like are DB Laterals with more internal rotation, Seated Laterals, machines, cables, etc.
Having some variety and enjoyment is a bit underrated I think, especially when it contributes volume to your focus. But that Weekly progression day is really what ties it all together imo.
quicknthedead
New member
@patdude832 Thank you for sharing!!
@patdude832 Good idea, though I'd do a 2 on 1 off.
I agree that deltoids can be trained often. I also agree that arms can be trained often.
The logic of "smaller muscles" makes sense, but it turns out that volume wise, some of the muscles we thought were "small" aren't, and some that we thought were "large" aren
But volume wise, the deltoids are the LARGEST muscle in the upper body.
https://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/fulltext/2017/10000/large\_and\_small\_muscles\_in\_resistance\_training\_\_is.9.aspx
That doesn't change the "can be trained often". I still think that side raises can be done frequently.
The deltoids have a bunch of functionally differentiated sections. The triceps as well.
Whatever the reason.
I agree that deltoids can be trained often. I also agree that arms can be trained often.
The logic of "smaller muscles" makes sense, but it turns out that volume wise, some of the muscles we thought were "small" aren't, and some that we thought were "large" aren
But volume wise, the deltoids are the LARGEST muscle in the upper body.
https://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/fulltext/2017/10000/large\_and\_small\_muscles\_in\_resistance\_training\_\_is.9.aspx
That doesn't change the "can be trained often". I still think that side raises can be done frequently.
The deltoids have a bunch of functionally differentiated sections. The triceps as well.
Whatever the reason.
patdude832
New member
I think we all view side delts as 'small' because we can only use small weights to stimulate them directly. I wonder if we have good fiber type research for this sorta thing..@patdude832 Part of the issue with the "small" weights is how we limit leverage when doing various side raise exercises as you alluded to.
Most people hardly do a movement where the side delts have good leverage-the best example of this would be a Wide Grip Upright Row. A more narrow grip pulls the elbows forward, focusing on the Front delts and pre-stretches the traps increasing their activation for many people.
A wider grip keeps the elbows to the side. It also limits the range of motion to what amounts to the side delts effective ROM.
I'll take the word of people that they get side delt work from OHPs. I never felt anything at all. The Behind Neck Press which is supposed to work the side delts MORE actually causes the humerus to externally rotate MORE meaning the front delts have even better leverage than they do in a regular Front Press.
Again, as all people are different I'll assume those that are saying they are getting Side Delt from BNPs are self-aware.
Most people hardly do a movement where the side delts have good leverage-the best example of this would be a Wide Grip Upright Row. A more narrow grip pulls the elbows forward, focusing on the Front delts and pre-stretches the traps increasing their activation for many people.
A wider grip keeps the elbows to the side. It also limits the range of motion to what amounts to the side delts effective ROM.
I'll take the word of people that they get side delt work from OHPs. I never felt anything at all. The Behind Neck Press which is supposed to work the side delts MORE actually causes the humerus to externally rotate MORE meaning the front delts have even better leverage than they do in a regular Front Press.
Again, as all people are different I'll assume those that are saying they are getting Side Delt from BNPs are self-aware.
@patdude832 Lu raises are an even more extreme and he does that every session too. Go for it.
pastorjeremylove
New member
@patdude832 I don't even wait till the end. I put them in 3rd, each day I am at the gym (3-4x week, depending on the program I'm running). I train FBW with PPL focus, so after each "main" part of the day I do the lateral raises, then the rest.
It's fun, they don't fatigue you much, and I feel like at the very end I'd be too tired to meaningfully progress them.
My delts have grown significantly once I settled on this approach, so I recommend it wholeheartedly.
It's fun, they don't fatigue you much, and I feel like at the very end I'd be too tired to meaningfully progress them.
My delts have grown significantly once I settled on this approach, so I recommend it wholeheartedly.
patdude832
New member
@pastorjeremylove That sounds good too, it can actually be a bit of a breather between heavier compound movements.
pastorjeremylove
New member
@patdude832 That's exactly how I consider them, too. An "active rest" with a hypertrophy bonus. They generate basically no system fatigue, hell they let you rest some, and their local fatigue has no bearing on other lifts. Win/win.
@patdude832 I’d say start with lateral raises 2-3 workouts a week. I wouldn’t do more than 3x a week frequency. End of workout is not a great idea if you really want to improve it.
patdude832
New member
@mm1992 Well on shoulder day it's certainly a priority movement that gets done when relatively fresh, and is progressively overloaded.
I've been doing 3-5x a week for a while now and have noticeably better delts than most people in my gym, despite being smaller and weaker in many other ways, so I'm thinking there's something to my obsession here. Seems like this approach works decently, I'm just looking to formalize it in the context of a bro split, and see if anyone else has stumbled on the same idea.
Also in the context of non-shoulder day workouts, e.g. legs, if done at the end of the workout I think it's still pretty good stimulus because that part of the musculature is still "fresh", despite other fatigue.
I've been doing 3-5x a week for a while now and have noticeably better delts than most people in my gym, despite being smaller and weaker in many other ways, so I'm thinking there's something to my obsession here. Seems like this approach works decently, I'm just looking to formalize it in the context of a bro split, and see if anyone else has stumbled on the same idea.
Also in the context of non-shoulder day workouts, e.g. legs, if done at the end of the workout I think it's still pretty good stimulus because that part of the musculature is still "fresh", despite other fatigue.
@patdude832 You could do them every other day but I wouldn’t do them 2 days in a row. There’s definitely something to higher frequency on most muscle groups but specifically side delts, arms, calves. Even though your side delts aren’t fatigued at the end of a workout you are overall fatigued and will get worse stimulus because of this. If it’s already a strong point then you can do them at the end but if you wanna improve just do them first. It won’t take away from anything because side delts don’t get worked in any other exercise besides slightly in a ohp.
@patdude832 Let me give you my 2c on this:
If you're training side-delts every day, you're already working around the problem with the brosplit: Shit is just not enough on a bro-split. The arms heal way faster than chest, back, and legs...and even those three major groups can be trained 2x a week. You'd be better off just replacing the shoulder (which is a weird day in itself - front delts are trained by chest work and adding rear delt work at the end of two back days wouldn't be a huge thing) and arms day with another chest and back day...and just do your arm stuff FIRST that day and do lighter/higher rep exercises for chest/back.
I tried to do the 4x a week with side-delts. My side delts started shitting out two weeks before the end of the meso. My reps for just THAT muscle group dropped by quite a few reps.
The other problem is just variation and joint wear. Sure, you could do lateral raises every day....but why? You'd be better off with something like two different lateral raises (like cross body cable Y-raise, then DB lateral raises another day) and two different upright rows (like DB and Cable upright rows.)
If you're training side-delts every day, you're already working around the problem with the brosplit: Shit is just not enough on a bro-split. The arms heal way faster than chest, back, and legs...and even those three major groups can be trained 2x a week. You'd be better off just replacing the shoulder (which is a weird day in itself - front delts are trained by chest work and adding rear delt work at the end of two back days wouldn't be a huge thing) and arms day with another chest and back day...and just do your arm stuff FIRST that day and do lighter/higher rep exercises for chest/back.
I tried to do the 4x a week with side-delts. My side delts started shitting out two weeks before the end of the meso. My reps for just THAT muscle group dropped by quite a few reps.
The other problem is just variation and joint wear. Sure, you could do lateral raises every day....but why? You'd be better off with something like two different lateral raises (like cross body cable Y-raise, then DB lateral raises another day) and two different upright rows (like DB and Cable upright rows.)
@patdude832 No muscle should be trained daily
patdude832
New member
@heartfire I still have 2 days completely off.
@patdude832 My thoughts are that this is stupid. If you side delts are a weak point in your physique I would start by adding volume during your shoulder day. If that doesn't help I would add some volume after your chest day.
That being said even if I think its stupid, I think that you should try it and see if it works.
That being said even if I think its stupid, I think that you should try it and see if it works.