christianmom21
New member
@mackman55 I don't really see how that's relevant to this sub though
Lateral Raises at the end of every workout
- Thread starter patdude832
- Start date
@christianmom21 It was a tongue in cheek comment about how Dr. Mike isn’t controversial in the realm of exercise science. I’m not sure why it even merits this comment from you
@mackman55 I missed that. When did he spout about politics?
@shiner222 I’m not sure when he started, but he has a dedicated channel for it now lol
@shiner222 he had a dedicated channel for it, and its very obviously out of his depth there. It seeps in jokingly in his muscle building content, but its obvious he's a Libertarian; no doubt heavily influenced by his Soviet upbringing. However, that doesn't, IMO; detract from his expertise in hypertrophy.
@greyowl It’s incredible that a guy who was born in the USSR doesn’t understand communism. His explanations of it are full of outright falsehoods. He really has no excuse, I think he’s massively biased in his perspective on this and that blinds him towards certain viewpoints, especially since he personally has done well under capitalism [so that must mean it is the best system for everybody right??].
@shows Its hard to say. I think he understands communism in the way it was implemented in the late USSR. Now I can't imagine any communist of today would actually look to the USSR as something one would want to emulate. Now I understand y'all making the don't throw out the baby with the baby water argument. I think a fair critique of Dr. Mike would be to stop assuming the USSR is the only way, or even a particularly good way to implement communism.
Now I would also argue that y'all have not made a compelling argument of how communism could be implemented in way that would be practically different from Mao or Lenin.
Now I would also argue that y'all have not made a compelling argument of how communism could be implemented in way that would be practically different from Mao or Lenin.
@greyowl The issue is he uses imperialist/authoritarian things done during the final years of the USSR that are not remotely considered communism as proof that it doesn’t work. I wouldn’t have any issue with his dismantling communism using real arguments about true facets of it but I take issue with him using strawmen. But thank you for the rational viewpoint, I appreciate it man.
@shiner222 I think you are mixing up Mike Mentzer and Dr. Mike hate. Few people here hate Dr. Mike
@shiner222 "Every other day" (Mike's rec - which makes sense) is pretty see different from "every day" (OP's proposal) I think.
faithfulmommy1821
New member
@shiner222 Do you have a link to the video? I have only started watching Mike recently [because of him I train forearms pretty much every workout,yes it's overkill but it seems to be working].
paulsimmonds60
New member
@shiner222 This tallies up with my trial and error. I tend to do from an U/L to a 5x U/L/Arnold hybrid and i do lat raises twice a week (cable and Db) and on U/L I do biceps and triceps on leg day giving them 4x frequency when you include indirect work and both blew up compared to the traditional routines
runningfromlawlessness
New member
@patdude832 I've heard numerous popular fitness channels (Dr. Mike, Mind Pump, Athlean-X to name a few) advocate for more frequent (sometimes daily) stimulation of smaller muscle groups. Side delts included.
The rationale behind it is usually directed at the real world examples of mail carriers with large calves, mechanics with large forearms, etc.. Basically, lower intensity but constant application causes a particular muscle group to grow larger than the rest.
Your explanation seems to be an accurate application based on what I've read and watched. You're hitting the muscle hard once or twice a week with shorter/lighter pump sessions in between.
The rationale behind it is usually directed at the real world examples of mail carriers with large calves, mechanics with large forearms, etc.. Basically, lower intensity but constant application causes a particular muscle group to grow larger than the rest.
Your explanation seems to be an accurate application based on what I've read and watched. You're hitting the muscle hard once or twice a week with shorter/lighter pump sessions in between.
patdude832
New member
@runningfromlawlessness I think more people should try it out for lagging muscles, particularly small ones.
Yeah I love having that once a week hard progressive session as a gut check on progress. And in my experience the extra frequency helps it. Maybe it's blood flow to help recovery, just practicing the movement pattern, etc. Or maybe the extra volume is just nicely cumulative
Yeah I love having that once a week hard progressive session as a gut check on progress. And in my experience the extra frequency helps it. Maybe it's blood flow to help recovery, just practicing the movement pattern, etc. Or maybe the extra volume is just nicely cumulative
@patdude832 Not nearly as advanced as you (about 2 years in) but this has been working pretty well for me. Infact, I sort of just do lateral raises in my room in between random things. Not really regimented so I don’t know I’d recommend it but it’s been working. Chest expanders have also been really working for my rear delts. A little unorthodox but look up alpha destiny’s video on em
patdude832
New member
@actere80 Also a fan of the chest expander, and btw if you do it horizontal I think you'll certainly get some side delt action. At least I do, chest expander horizontal pull apart pumps up my entire shoulders.
Yeah this is more or less what I'm advocating, except I do it for 5 mins at the end of my non-shoulder day workouts because I'm already at the gym so why not. It's like a fun treat getting that pump in, and the extra volume is almost certainly beneficial given that it doesn't really take away from anything else.
But I'd definitely recommend having 1 day a week where you track progression for side delts in some way, even if other days are free form for fun.
Yeah this is more or less what I'm advocating, except I do it for 5 mins at the end of my non-shoulder day workouts because I'm already at the gym so why not. It's like a fun treat getting that pump in, and the extra volume is almost certainly beneficial given that it doesn't really take away from anything else.
But I'd definitely recommend having 1 day a week where you track progression for side delts in some way, even if other days are free form for fun.
@patdude832 Main issue. Is possible shoulder joint/tendon/rotator cuff issues.
These might not shown up right away. But essentially when they do you're sort of fucked. (These problems can br resolved but without drugs it's extremely tedious and most people return to full workload before the problems fixed, reinjuring them and then leading to a condition where they're weakened and continuously reinjure, each time easier than the last.
I fix the once a week problem by hitting them twice a week. Have a day where they're hit with a progressively overloaded OHP so a solid compound movement. And a day where I use a lateral raise machine that's also progressively overloaded. A solid isolation movement. I also do reverse flies and face pulls. But not gonna get into my training program.
If the weights are actually light pump work with slow reps won't hurt. The biggest issue, is it'll be too easy to overestimate what this would actually be if you intend to do it daily, and it could impede your actual shoulder days progressive overload which will carry the significant bulk of your hypertrophy.
I'd personal advice against it. Hit it 3 times a week if you must. 48 hours seems to be consistently stated in the research as optimal recovery time.
Drop sets ARE really good for chasing the pump and hypertrophy. I'm not going to get into the ridiculous argument that people think properly doing chasing the pump is not optimally hypertrophic (the problem is they usually don't understand how to optimally chase the pump when they try to argue this because if they did, theyd realized to maximally chase the pump, and to maximally train for hypertrophy, these two goals have like 85% overlap i.e. are pretty much the same damn thing)
So big points to you for utilizing drop sets. Seriously effective training tool for size that people just seem to have forgotten exist.
My fear is. For optimal recovery and injury prevention you're weights would be too light to provide adequate stimulus. But the correct way would be definitely on the lower side and doing super slow controlled reps that burn like battery acid. And when failure happens or 1 rep away then drop setting and repeating with no rest.
Idea is it needs to be light enough and your technique perfect enough, movement slow enough, that it has 0 impact on your tendons/joint/rotator cuffs. And you can still obtain some stimulus with super slow painfully burning reps.
You need to save all tendon/joint/cuff stimulus for you're actual progressive overload day because again that will be atleast 70% of your primary hypertrophy because of the progressive overload.
I really think you're much better off doing 3 times a week. Every other day essentially. This allows recovery in-between, meaning you can go a little bit heavier for stimulus on non shoulder days, the pump set days which will result in better growth.
More recovery than your initial plan, more stimulus (heavier loads), better than hitting it 1 day a week.
Sorry for sounding redundant. I love the hype about it, you've gotta think longevity and even if you don't feel like it, a daily shoulder set is a high risk long term, and if it's light enough to not increase injury risk it's probably too light to add meaningful stimulus.
You can only go so light and so slow on the reps in a high volume pump type work before its essentially cardio with your delts. My fear here is, you'll largely be in a cardio zone, or you'll gradually be increasing wear and tear faster than your recovering.
These might not shown up right away. But essentially when they do you're sort of fucked. (These problems can br resolved but without drugs it's extremely tedious and most people return to full workload before the problems fixed, reinjuring them and then leading to a condition where they're weakened and continuously reinjure, each time easier than the last.
I fix the once a week problem by hitting them twice a week. Have a day where they're hit with a progressively overloaded OHP so a solid compound movement. And a day where I use a lateral raise machine that's also progressively overloaded. A solid isolation movement. I also do reverse flies and face pulls. But not gonna get into my training program.
If the weights are actually light pump work with slow reps won't hurt. The biggest issue, is it'll be too easy to overestimate what this would actually be if you intend to do it daily, and it could impede your actual shoulder days progressive overload which will carry the significant bulk of your hypertrophy.
I'd personal advice against it. Hit it 3 times a week if you must. 48 hours seems to be consistently stated in the research as optimal recovery time.
Drop sets ARE really good for chasing the pump and hypertrophy. I'm not going to get into the ridiculous argument that people think properly doing chasing the pump is not optimally hypertrophic (the problem is they usually don't understand how to optimally chase the pump when they try to argue this because if they did, theyd realized to maximally chase the pump, and to maximally train for hypertrophy, these two goals have like 85% overlap i.e. are pretty much the same damn thing)
So big points to you for utilizing drop sets. Seriously effective training tool for size that people just seem to have forgotten exist.
My fear is. For optimal recovery and injury prevention you're weights would be too light to provide adequate stimulus. But the correct way would be definitely on the lower side and doing super slow controlled reps that burn like battery acid. And when failure happens or 1 rep away then drop setting and repeating with no rest.
Idea is it needs to be light enough and your technique perfect enough, movement slow enough, that it has 0 impact on your tendons/joint/rotator cuffs. And you can still obtain some stimulus with super slow painfully burning reps.
You need to save all tendon/joint/cuff stimulus for you're actual progressive overload day because again that will be atleast 70% of your primary hypertrophy because of the progressive overload.
I really think you're much better off doing 3 times a week. Every other day essentially. This allows recovery in-between, meaning you can go a little bit heavier for stimulus on non shoulder days, the pump set days which will result in better growth.
More recovery than your initial plan, more stimulus (heavier loads), better than hitting it 1 day a week.
Sorry for sounding redundant. I love the hype about it, you've gotta think longevity and even if you don't feel like it, a daily shoulder set is a high risk long term, and if it's light enough to not increase injury risk it's probably too light to add meaningful stimulus.
You can only go so light and so slow on the reps in a high volume pump type work before its essentially cardio with your delts. My fear here is, you'll largely be in a cardio zone, or you'll gradually be increasing wear and tear faster than your recovering.
lihuaemily
New member
@patdude832 You need to rest the muscles too. That's where they actually grow.
Other exercises do grow the shoulders too, not just side raises.
Other exercises do grow the shoulders too, not just side raises.
@patdude832 Random question for the comments, at what point is the lateral head of the shoulder most stretched?