Made absolutely no progress in the past year when I had pretty much everything dialed in, starting to lose motivation..

[jess1]

@wmsgil What progress did you expect to see while staying the pretty much the same bodyweight when you were pretty lean in the before pic?

 

[wmsgil]

@jess1 Not sure why people think I just maintained. If you look at attached MacroFactor data, you can see the lean bulk in action.

 

[jess1]

@wmsgil I was going by your before and after pic.

In the two pics a year apart you’re the same weight. Of course you look the same considering you’re about as lean in each of them.
Why don’t you post pics when you’ve completed your bulk so there will hopefully be noticeable change?

 

[wwjosh19]

@jess1 That kinda defeats the entire point of bulking/cutting my guy.

 

[jess1]

@wwjosh19 Care to explain what you mean? The entire point of bulking and cutting is to end up bigger when at the same level of body fat when you eventually cut.

You won’t see any progress if before and after pics if you’re the same weight and leanness. This should be obvious. Posting ‘after’ pics when you’re halfway through bulking is bizarre. The common sense thing is to take pics when you’re at the same stage in your bulking and cutting cycle (normally at the end of each bulk and cut). You can measure progress better if the pics are from the same stage of your training cycle.

 

[ticketbroker]

@wmsgil First off, your physique looks great! I’m seeing many people’s goals in your pictures.

Your lean bulk calorie goal seems quite low to me. Were you able to achieve the desired average weekly weight gain with that? You may benefit from increasing up to 0.5% body weight/week, which will inevitably add fat and require a low and slow cut afterwards.

Looks like you switch up your programming quite often, which makes measuring small and sustainable improvements (progressive overload) tough to implement and measure over time.

Otherwise, I’m a big fan of suggestions provided by Dr. Mike with Renaissance Periodization on YouTube. He likely has a video lecture on this issue specifically.

Not to say there are no improvements here! Your legs definitely look bigger for example.

 

[wmsgil]

@ticketbroker Thank you for the kind words.

Your lean bulk calorie goal seems quite low to me. Were you able to achieve the desired average weekly weight gain with that?

Yep MacroFactor adjusts the calories to meet the goal. If you look at the picture I attached, you can see I'm steadily gaining weight.

Looks like you switch up your programming quite often, which makes measuring small and sustainable improvements (progressive overload) tough to implement and measure over time.

Yep, this year I transitioned to doing more of a bodybuilding style training so I'm kind of experimenting with different routines. I really do want to just find one that works and stick to it. But I'm just kinda disappointed at the lack of meaningful progress in doing them and don't think any of them is a good fit long term.

 

[needaanswer]

@wmsgil You may be at a point in your lifting career where you’d benefit from working with a coach. 3DMJ is as good as it gets for natural body building advice and coaching (IMHO). Eric Helmes (one of the 3DMJ guys) has an excellent book, “strength training pyramid”, it’s all science based and very helpful for advanced lifters. You look great, still have room to progress but likely need a more specific approach. FYI if you got your T tested while dieting that’s likely why it wasn’t as high as you’d expect. It’s also highest in the AM and drops throughout the day. It’s helpful to focus on strength gains as you move further into your career since the size gains slow down so much.

 

[wmsgil]

@needaanswer Yep I'm considering getting a coach now, do you have experience working with 3DMJ coaches?

 

[chotkisteve]

@wmsgil Omar Isuf and Eric Helms do Iron Culture, great great podcast. Here’s one on advanced lifting, may be of help

 

[needaanswer]

@wmsgil I worked with Alberto a few years back (just casual coaching “off season” type stuff even though I’ve never competed. I actually still use the programs he wrote me haha (with some very minor volume tweaks here and there). I probably met with him on 3 different occasions (Skype consults).

 

[needaanswer]

@wmsgil It was and I would! For me the value was mostly in getting a solid customized program (they’ll tweak things up to fit what you’re looking for, and they have years of experience training and coaching so can answer pretty much any questions you have). It was significantly less expensive when I did a consult years ago and my employer provided a “fitness fund” I was able to use. I still rotate two of the programs (both are 9 week blocks). You could also check out the strength training pyramid book, it has sample workouts in the back (heck you could probably find those online) along with information around volume tweaks and changes, what to do when you’re not progressing, etc. the programs Alberto put together for me combined accumulating additional volume for the first 4 weeks or so (on main lifts), deloading and then upping intensity. I like the 4 day splits, 2 days are focused more on strength 2 days more on hypertrophy ranges. I think the value for you would be having someone that can provide you with guidance and help you learn to tweak the programs. I agree with the general consensus on here, which is that you’ll probably need to bulk longer. I did a 2-3 year lean bulk (partly planned, partly from having kids LOL). I’m 6’ went from 205 to 220 (maybe 14%-19% BF), finally started a cut (dropping roughly a pound a week). Will diet down back around 205 again. I know I’ve gotten stronger on some lifts (looking back at old workout logs). Not sure how to share a pic, maybe I’ll figure it out later.

 

[dbanet]

@wmsgil Quit your jibber jabber, you look fucking great!

I think you could do with a good 'ol healthy bulk. Put on the pounds and gain more mass, then cut down.

 

[freedom2012]

@wmsgil So, you have made progress however it probably is slow due to the changing routine and diet. I noticed the best progress when I stuck with a similar workout routine for 6 months while eating in a 300-500 surplus.

 

[ize19]

@wmsgil Going off what the guy above me said, have you tried increasing your overall caloric intake by maybe 200 for a week or two?

This is completely anecdotal, so take this with a grain of salt, but a few years back when I was really tracking all of my macros I was taking in around ~2200 calories a day (don’t have my old diet handy at the moment but probably similar percentages on the fat/protein/carbs). For reference, I am 5’ 9” and was 155 at the time and I could not put on any mass at ~2200 calories a day.

I’m no expert by any means, but I’d maybe try increasing your caloric intake by 100-200 either every week or every two weeks and maybe see if that helps over the span of a month or more?

Edit: Mass, not weight

 

[wmsgil]

@ize19 The thing is I am steadily gaining weight with my current macros (

https://imgur.com/a/500qeLN

). Or are you saying despite I'm gaining weight, I should still up the calories to see better progress?

 

[ize19]

@wmsgil Sorry, I could have worded that better, but yeah, in my case even though I visibly looked similar I went from like 150lbs to 155lbs on a similar calorie count.

Despite your weight gain, maybe try upping your calories (and by extension your macros) by around 200 for like two weeks. You’re already dialed in and tracking your lift progress so see if maybe by the 2nd week you see improvement either on your lifts or your physique. If not, then try maybe another 100 for a week or another 200 for another 2 weeks if you’re not satisfied after the first increase.

Worst case scenario, you may gain a bit more weight and you can always drop your calories back, if needed. But somewhat similar to you, I got frustrated after about 6 months of looking the same and said why not. You’ve already varied your program quite a bit so maybe try the diet this time.

Either way, keep up the hard work man.

Edit: I meant mass on my first comment, not weight. My bad.

 

[wen56der]

@wmsgil You need to get significantly stronger and commit to a bulk properly, gain much more bodyweight over time. You don’t have everything dialled in if you don’t understand these basics, this is foundational bodybuilding

 

[braynman]

@wmsgil Do you track your numbers on something other than the big 3?

Can you look back and compare numbers to see if you've actually progressed on most of your lifts?

Do you have a progression method besides just going to 1-0 RIR and hoping for the best?

From what I'm seeing here in the overall scheme of things, you "bulked" from 168 to 172? and what? got scared and started to cut? that's not even a bulk, you could afford to keep going for a lot longer.

Also you did make some progress, At you level it's gonna be painfully slow to begin with, and even more so if you are scared of gaining weight.

 

[needaanswer]

@braynman “At you level it's gonna be painfully slow to begin with, and even more so if you are scared of gaining weight.”

This right here OP, things slow down considerably as you progress. Also your bulk was pretty conservative, it may have been beneficial to keep it going a bit longer. It’s not unusual for natural bodybuilders to take 1-2 years off of competing so they can focus on attempting to build additional muscle. Often if you see those guys come in looking more muscular it’s because they’ve gotten better at maintaining their muscle while dieting rather than that they added significant additional size (in the drug tested natural competitions).