Mike Mentzer's heavy duty program and callisthenics

[iambridget]

@lutherisch Happy to help, good luck!

 

[deltamagna77]

@life4h1m I've followed Mentzer's routine pretty consistently for 4 months and have seen good results. I would guess that bodyweight exercises would make it difficult to isolate specific muscle groups enough to stimulate maximum growth.
If you plan on using BW exercises with this plan you could always try to pre-exhaust certain muscle groups to get better results. Working your abs and shoulders before doing pushups for example would probably give your chest a much better workout.
I'm considering doing more dropsets because its pretty difficult to use max weight to failure with proper form, but thats the only issue I see with his program.

 

[chicagocubs1990]

@life4h1m Recently i came across a clip in witch Mike said that high intensity low force training could be very effective. (Something like doing 100 pull ups in 5 min)

 

[seekerofthetruth331]

@life4h1m This method works by doing ~6-8 total sets per week per muscle group. these sets are usually taken to absolute failure(weight that allows 6-10 along with partial reps) with long rests (4-6 minutes between ).

The problem with this for calisthenics is the lack of isolation exercises as this approach will not tire out/stimulate those secondary and tertiary muscles and with the low volume they will lag behind.

 

[villianmade]

@life4h1m The 'one set to failure' thing goes back to Arthur Jones and the early Nautilus machines. Actually well before that with some barbell folks.

'Super Slow' and 'Body by Science' are more recent versions. The idea of a 'hard set' that they require is almost impossible for most people to endure. Also, without the external control of the machines (and even with it) most people form and technique goes in the toilet by the time they get to the critical last reps.

So yes, one hard set can be productive. But whether it's reallly all that better than other schemes is very much in doubt.

 

[deborah123]

@life4h1m

As many of you probably know, Mike has some pretty unorthodox views (by today's standards, I guess) on how bodybuilding workout should be programmed. More precisely, he claims that one very hard set (to complete failure, with a weight that allows 6-10 reps) is enough for muscle growth, that workout session should be fairly short, e.g. 20 minutes, and that a person should workout once ot twice a week.

Most current hypertrophy research has generally centered on at least 2-3 sets in the 5-30 rep range for most exercises and like 1-3 exercises per muscle group. How many depends usually on if someone is a beginner, trained beginner, intermediate or beyond. Usually like 3-6 sets for beginners, maybe 4-8 for trained beginners, and like 6-10 sets for intermediate and beyond.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fiction/

I think instead of asking yourself, “Is this rep range better than this other rep range in some objective physiological sense?” you’re better off asking yourself, “What allows me to get in the most high quality sets during each session and during each week?”

Let’s unpack that statement a bit.

High quality sets refer to those that employ exercises that are likely going to be limited by the muscle you’re trying to train, through the longest range of motion you can maintain with safe form, taken within 2-3 reps of failure*, and performed when you’re adequately recovered from your previous set (generally around 1.5-2 minutes of rest for isolation lifts, and 3-5+ minutes for heavy compound lifts).

*Failure defined as absolute failure for exercises like curls or delt raises where injury risk is low, and technical failure for exercises like squats or deadlifts where injury risk is higher.

The above is one of the most extensively researched articles on hypertrophy that I know of, and generally speakng you're aiming for multiple quality sets.

HIT-type training has fallen out of favor mainly because the 1 set you will need to drop set a ton even remotely get a similar stimulus as more standard sets with rest times, so usually it's moderately to vastly inferior for strenth and hypertrophy for most. PEDs not withstanding.

 

[dawn16]

@life4h1m So for Mike Mentzer's program, it's only one set to failure, but it's not the only set. There are warm up sets, the super set, and rest-pause (which isn't technically a set but is more reps.) And the tempo is 4 seconds of concentric, 1 second hold, and then 4 seconds of eccentric, this removes any momentum in the workout. And the eccentric is where the real muscle fiber damage occurs.

So, though one set sounds easy, there's a lot more reps than you might expect, and the slow cadence makes them a lot more difficult.

For body weight, since your weight is the maximum weight you're going to be working with, you're going to want to superset every exercise, and also rest pause every final exercise of the muscle.

So here's a chest and triceps example (for what I think might work):

Chest
-Standard Pushup for warm up
Two sets of 4/1/4 cadence, reps are up to you, but keep plenty distance from failure. You're just getting the chest ready.

Superset (no rest/break)
-Pushup bar (to get a better stretch of the chest)
1 set at 4/1/4 cadence to failure, however many reps that may be.

After failure do rest-pause. Take 5-10 deep breaths and immediately continue the pushup bar until failure. Your reps should dramatically decrease and that's good. Repeat that 4-5 times and then you're finished.

Optionally, you can do eccentric failure afterwards, by slowly lowering yourself on the pushup bars until you give out, and then repeating 4-5 times.

Triceps:
-Bodyweight Tricep Extension
Same thing, 2 sets at 4/1/4 cadence, warm up the muscles but don't hit failure.

Superset
-Dip bar
1 set at 4/1/4 cadence as many reps as it takes to hit failure.

Repeat as before with the rest-pause and the optional eccentric failure.

And that's it.

I don't do body weight exercise so the workouts I chose may not be the best, but you can swap those out. The important thing to note is that the warm up should isolate the primary working muscle (as best as can be done, this may be difficult with certain muscles using bodyweight.) This is to fatigue that muscle so the secondary muscles get a better workout during the superset, which needs to be a compound.

Also this is hypothetical, so adjust the rest-pause or eccentric failure as necessary. If 5 rest-pause is too much or too little, or if 5-10 deep breaths allows you to do way too many pushups, then adjust accordingly.

 

[hanna123]

@life4h1m I've just started implementing his methods after looking into it a bit, but my expectations and approach are a little different.

I'm experimenting with it to see if it can make me stronger, not necessarily for hypertrophy, with my focus on the one arm pullup.

I've done two workouts this way, and it's straight painful. Haha! I stand on a chair so I can use my legs to assist. Start in the bottom position, pull using legs as little as possible, hold the top position for 10 seconds, lower as slowly as possible, repeat for reps. I've only been able to get 5 reps, and my PR for regular two-handed pullups is 23. That's it though. 5 reps and I'm toast.

It may be worth looking into negative training, just to expand your knowledge a bit. You can statically hold a heavier weight than you can lift, and you can lower/ resist a heavier weight than you can statically hold. So since you're stronger in the negative and static positions, it made sense to me to work those aspects of the lift.

 

[big_sinner]

@life4h1m The dude was 80% steroids by weight. Nothing he did will work for you.

 

[kaririopelle]

@big_sinner Two dumb as fuck statements back to back, this sub deserves better

Edit: getting downvoted for calling out literal dumbfuck statements, i guess the sub does not deserve better

Edit2: the below is what i replied to the guy below me and was removed by a mod

You said

The dude was 80% steroids by weight. Nothing he did will work for you.

You know what sounds better and OP would actually take away something from it?

The dude was on heavy usage of PEDs, do not expect the same results as he's gotten. You can experiment around with his program and incorporate HIT elements into your own, I wouldn't copy it one to one, but I would try sliding the scale and see what works for you

 

[big_sinner]

@kaririopelle You can get away with training like a moron on roids. Go and do your third Rich Piana 8 hour arm workout of the week. You’ll curl the 35lbs one day, bud.

 

[lmr]

@big_sinner Can you win Mr Olympia training like a moron on roids?

 

[big_sinner]

@lmr Elite genetics, 20 years of training, and a shit load of steroids? Yeah. Yeah you can.

 

[lmr]

@big_sinner It seems to me that you'll be competing against people who have all that, plus a good training program. So I seriously doubt it.

 

[big_sinner]

@lmr And that's a good point. But that implies that the only difference between competitors is gym training, which isn't the case. So many other factors to take into account. Symmetry, insertion genetics, conditioning, proportions, etc.

And my best example as to why I think his program is bullshit is due to the frequency. So many people stall out on PPL or bro splits, myself included.

Clearly it worked for him. I'd like to be shown evidence of people reaching advanced/elite status following his program.

 

[kaririopelle]

@big_sinner You said

The dude was 80% steroids by weight. Nothing he did will work for you.

You know what sounds better and OP would actually take away something from it?

The dude was on heavy usage of PEDs, do not expect the same results as he's gotten. You can experiment around with his program and incorporate HIT elements into your own, I wouldn't copy it one to one, but I would try sliding the scale and see what works for you.

 

[caitriona]

@life4h1m There’s a couple things to consider
I currently use a bro split that’s hypertrophy based which is taking the time out of one day to destroy one muscle group. During this time I realized that literally one very hard set to failure is not enough because of the fact we utilize Bodyweight exercises instead of weights. You should at least be doing 3-4 sets to failure on a certain muscle group that you want to train. Mainly because of the limited amount of exercises that truly target isolation , you’re not gonna get to give that extra little attention to get those freaky triceps or huge biceps but more as focusing on : training to actual failure, isolation exercises with calisthenics and a bro split will be your best bet . People in mainstream fitness hate bro splits but that’s how bodybuilders got huge because they literally took the day and training session to destroy that one muscle group and that muscle group had more than enough time to recover which is awesome. Just know that it will take time and consistency and overall , a bro split will definitely get you bigger than some PPL split.

 

[power1]

@caitriona I agree with this comment. It’s easier to push to true failure with weights than bodyweight movements. Because bw movements engage more muscles passively to stabilize the body when using it as resistance, the amount of total musculature used generates more systemic fatigue, and that is the limiting factor as opposed to failure in targeted muscle group.

 

[dawn16]

@life4h1m The funniest thing is that Mike trained high volume, he didn't start floggin the hit method untill he finished competing. Heavy duty was his pay check after competitive bodybuilding.

When he was competing, he had a formula that worked, and one similar to the other pros of his era. Gym minimum 2 hours a day and 6 days a week, a healthy dose of deca durabolin and dbol.

 

[sendmelord]

@dawn16 True, but Dorian Yates used one set to failure and look where it got him