Most Trainees Lift Too Far Away From Failure (discussion)

[brock]

From this article: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/research-spotlight-train-light/

Researchers asked 160 trained subjects what load they’d normally use to perform sets of 10 reps on the bench press. Then, the researchers had the subjects complete a set to failure with their self-selected load. On average, subjects completed 16 reps, and more than a quarter completed at least 19 reps. Notably, 76% of subjects reported that their primary goal was hypertrophy, and 80% reported that they generally performed bench press as the first exercise in their training sessions (meaning they didn’t select relatively light loads because they typically train bench press when they’re already fatigued). So, it appeared that many of the participants self-selected loads that were likely too light for their primary goal. While you don’t need to go to failure to maximize hypertrophy, you’re probably leaving a lot of muscle growth on the table when you habitually train with >5 reps in reserve (and you’re certainly leaving a lot of muscle growth on the table if you do most of your training with >9 reps in reserve).

The article goes on to discuss a meta-analysis which found something similar.

What is your guys' take on this?

Seems to me like this is confirmation for those pushing progressive overload and the "+1 mindset." If all lifters were constantly trying to push to add 1 rep or 5lbs to the bar every week, then we wouldn't have so many people in the gym who look the same and lift the same year-in, year-out.

 

[hopeandgrace]

@brock As someone that trains in a commercial gym, this seems incredibly accurate. The majority of people are barely scratching the surface when it comes to the effort component - the face is always a dead giveaway. 90% of people I see lifting in my gym have massage face. I almost never see fuckthisimdying face.

 

[heal_the_sick]

@hopeandgrace The number of times my mind was drifting off in the 9th circle of hell on a last rep, only to realize afterwards that I'd been staring at someone while making crazy faces is too high.

 

[chris1212]

@heal_the_sick I like watching JPG Coaching videos just because his lifting face looks like he is cooked out of his mind, while also looking around to see if anyone is noticing he is cooked out of his mind

 

[shag28]

@hopeandgrace Yeah, I think most people want to lift but do t want it to be too hard lol which isn’t really productive.

 

[jeremypj]

@hopeandgrace I don't know how people talk and laugh between every single set, I'm there fighting for my life while trying to catch a breath.

 

[airmax2009]

@jeremypj Wouldn’t this depend on the exercise? I know with some movements like triceps, I literally can’t do another rep, like I’m cramping up. But I’m not out of breath or anything

 

[thebelovedofgod]

@brock Just looking around your local gym, do you doubt this at all?

There are some big guys at my gym, but also a LOT of dudes who don't seem to make much progress. They never seem to struggle on sets (unless it's bench). Hell, I've seen them keep up conversations in the middle of a set.

This is the kind of info that will worry a lot of people in this sub, but I'd guess it doesn't apply to the vast majority of us, but more so to people who just kind of fuck around without a program.

 

[dbanet]

@thebelovedofgod This is the other side of ego lifting for me. I see a lot of people in the gym that are afraid to be seen to fail.

 

[clock17]

@thebelovedofgod 2 people in my gym who have phone convos with their Bluetooth the entire workout. Lol

 

[dawn16]

@thebelovedofgod This is why I don’t bench press. To do it right you really need a spotter. Even w a spotter I feel there is a risk of dropping the bar on my face trying to rerack when heavily fatigued so I prepare things like cable chest press or machine where I can very safely take things to failure.

 

[pinkangel175]

@dawn16 Use spotter arms.

Edit: I've failed many times. Spotter arms saved me. I've never dropped the bar on myself lol.

 

[beaufordqrastus]

@dawn16 As an advanced bencher it's actually pretty easy to gauge how many reps you've got before giving out. I rarely bench with a spotter and if I do only maybe on the last 1 or 2 sets. I know when I'm at the point where I could get one last one with absolute maximum effort, I just stop 1 rep shy of it and get a spotter for the last set when I want to go to true failure. Yes, it's easier to train other chest exercises to failure, but if benching is your thing it's basically a non-issue.

 

[ben982743]

@beaufordqrastus Exactly

 

[shine19]

@beaufordqrastus Exactly. People who bench with clips should be institutionalized and never be allowed in a gym for life.

 

[d1cker1]

@dawn16 Bench with dumbbells, you can just drop them (slowly and controlled).

Even with barbell bench, if you cannot get it up you can roll it down your body. One other alternative is to bench without clips, and then you rest it on your chest and roll it side to side and the weights fall off

 

[spst]

@d1cker1 You don't even need to drop with dumbbells, you can let them slide forward to create momentum, so you can push your body forward and put them on your knees. It's hard to explain but that's what I've been doing.

 

[shine19]

@d1cker1 Dude, every time I see someone bench heavy alone with clips, I realize how dumb humanity truly is.

Strength from one week to the next is extremely unreliable. Even if you’re not testing a 1RM, you never know if you will hit failure.

What is the benefit of clips when benching? Why would someone who has gotten to the point of advanced weight lifting, not have figured this out?

Sorry if I’ve come on heavy here but it’s an extreme annoyance to me as it’s so dangerous.

 

[usernameless]

@shine19 Im a somewhat advanced bencher (315@160) and I can tell you any bencher worth their salt knows exactly how many reps hes get left ...

 

[shag28]

@shine19 Every more so, if you are in a gym why not bench inside a squat rack with safety bars… I bench alone at home and I can set the bars lower than my chest but high enough that I can fail and just slide out.